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Why does D&D still have 16th to 20th level?
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<blockquote data-quote="AnotherGuy" data-source="post: 8699697" data-attributes="member: 7029930"><p>My players are currently 13th level and loving it and cannot wait to progress upwards.</p><p></p><p>(i) The halfling wild magic sorcerer is 13th but effectively uses the class features and spell casting table of a 14th level sorcerer after making a pact with a bone devil's master. It allowed the DM (me) to add additional flavour to his wild magic table. It is a little darker to signify the affect of tapping into the power of a Lord of the Nine Hells. The dark pact was made when the party lost a fellow member who was kidnapped by Halaster. Their failed attempt in rescuing her when they where defeated by <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Netherskull" target="_blank">Netherskull</a> saw them being saved moments before their death via the Mad Mage's Time Stops only to have them cloned while unconscious before being released in the upper levels of Undermountain. Their only escape from being his lackies in the future would require them to destroy their cloned bodies nesting in the depths of Halaster's dungeon - thus needing to defeat Blackcloak himself. Hence the halfling's motivation for a deal with the devil literally.</p><p></p><p>(ii) The fighter is looking to reclaim a 2-part artefact that shape-changes into a weapon (he doesn't yet know it's the <em>Rod of Seven Parts</em>) that he lost from an unfortunate interaction with an <a href="https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=MRwvuTzy&id=4730C55F59FF235005332862CE682429E417D5A8&thid=OIP.MRwvuTzyw-3mxidjN8tUfgHaH5&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.dungeonsolvers.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2018%2f12%2fDG9H1GSVYAA3LzH-494x527.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.311c2fb93cf2c3ede6c6276337cb547e%3frik%3dqNUX5CkkaM5iKA%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=527&expw=494&q=Everlasting+one+5e&simid=607996558668621503&FORM=IRPRST&ck=6D9A20AC421CD428B4288A7CA2F85A21&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0" target="_blank">Everlasting One</a>. His delving into his parents history and disappearance had him uncover some lore on the multiverse and the <em>City of Doors</em>. He died against the greater mummy <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Diderius" target="_blank">Diderius</a> when the party was attempting to use the tomb's divination pool to establish the location of the blue dragon mask. However a young Immortal (long last companion of the party) petitioned for his soul in Kelemvor's <em>City of Judgement</em> when he would have otherwise been sent to the <em>Wall of the Faithless </em>since he didn't follow any FR deities. His reforging (resurrection) back into Faerun came at the cost of having his soul stripped from his native Mystara plane and instead bound to the Forgotten Realms universe.</p><p> </p><p>(iii) The cleric of Kelemvor is hunting down a madman (an old PC) who seeks to return the <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/At%27ar" target="_blank">Merciless At'ar</a> back into the pantheon. The madman very much following the mantra <em>"What is dead, may never die". </em>Having uncovered ancient creation/life runes in hidden treasure caches of Ostoria, the madman now seeks to uncover the rumoured portals in <a href="https://realmofadventure.fandom.com/wiki/At%27ar%27s_Looking_Glass" target="_blank">At'ar's Looking Glass</a> in the hopes of locating At'ar's corpse in the Astral plane and utilising said runes.</p><p></p><p>(iv) The artificer is seeking the knowledge of true science which he believes has been lost and plagued with the impurities of magic. In his quest he met with a power-stripped Elminster (long story) who requested from him a favour that he is now unable to deliver on himself: <em>To safeguard his ward and discover the truth of her origin</em>.</p><p>His ward being a creature from the monster menagerie from <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/308497/Arcana-of-the-Ancients" target="_blank">Arcana of the Ancients</a> which serves to be a stepping stone in the direction of the lore the artificer is so desperate to uncover.</p><p></p><p>All this while Faerun is out of kilt with the</p><p>(a) <em>Ordning</em> being shattered (SKT), and the arrival of <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Hartkiller" target="_blank">Hartkiller</a> (Heartkiller's Horn DDAL05-17), which would create a giant power struggle amongst the giants should <em>King Hekaton</em> be found and returned to his throne. Would the giants stand behind the storm giant King or Annam's very own? And can this all be resolved before (b);</p><p></p><p>(b) impending arrival of Tiamat at the <em>Well of Dragons</em> as the <em>Cult of the Dragon</em> now firmly infiltrated by the <em>Church of Tiamat,</em> hence the reinterpretation on <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Maglas" target="_blank">Maglas's</a> writings (ToD); and let us not forget</p><p></p><p>(c) Szass Tam creating dracoliches with the use of soulstones given to him by traditionalists of the <em>Cult of the Dragon </em>from<em> Xonthal's Keep</em> in an effort to defeat Tiamat and her forces as well as conquer the Sword Coast (<a href="https://www.dmsguild.com/product/234490/A-Mission-to-Thay--Nethwatch-Keep" target="_blank">Mission to Thay: Nethwatch Keep</a>); and this then in the backdrop of</p><p></p><p>(d) Vlaakith CLVII's assisting her ally Tiamat by secretly deploying a battalion of Githyanki warriors and knights at the <em>Well of Dragons</em>.</p><p></p><p>[SPOILER="Allies of Tiamat from the FR wiki"]Years after their exile in the Astral Plane, during the continuing war with the illithids, Gith's advisor, Vlaakith I, suggested that she search for allies in the <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Outer_Planes" target="_blank">Outer Planes</a>, in particular from <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tiamat" target="_blank">Tiamat</a>. Gith agreed to visit the <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nine_Hells" target="_blank">Nine Hells</a> for an audience, but never returned. Instead, the red dragon envoy Ephelomon returned with a pledge from Tiamat that all red dragons would be allies to the githyanki and that a small contingent of red dragons would serve them as steeds. The envoy also decreed that Vlaakith I and her descendants would rule the githyanki in Gith's stead.<a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Githyanki#cite_note-MM5e-p158-160-1" target="_blank">[1]</a><a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Githyanki#cite_note-MTF5e-p86-87-29" target="_blank">[27]</a><a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Githyanki#cite_note-DM100-p97-98-44" target="_blank">[42]</a> Vlaakith I also played a crucial role in securing the githyanki's position in the Astral Plane.<a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Githyanki#cite_note-MTF5e-p86-87-29" target="_blank">[27]</a> Ephelomon remained Vlaakith's consort ever since[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>And should the party be victorious in their assault of the <em>Well of Dragons</em> and defeat Tiamat, along with them having played <a href="https://www.dmsguild.com/product/242645/The-LichQueens-Begotten" target="_blank">The Lich Queen's Begotten</a> - it would make sense to lead into <a href="https://paizo.com/dungeonissues/100/Dungeon100Enhancement.pdf" target="_blank">The Lich Queen's Beloved</a> since players (ii)-(iv) scope is already beyond the Faerun setting.</p><p></p><p>Now I could do all this and the myriad other storylines intersecting the above at lower levels, but why in Flint Fireforge's name would I want to?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AnotherGuy, post: 8699697, member: 7029930"] My players are currently 13th level and loving it and cannot wait to progress upwards. (i) The halfling wild magic sorcerer is 13th but effectively uses the class features and spell casting table of a 14th level sorcerer after making a pact with a bone devil's master. It allowed the DM (me) to add additional flavour to his wild magic table. It is a little darker to signify the affect of tapping into the power of a Lord of the Nine Hells. The dark pact was made when the party lost a fellow member who was kidnapped by Halaster. Their failed attempt in rescuing her when they where defeated by [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Netherskull']Netherskull[/URL] saw them being saved moments before their death via the Mad Mage's Time Stops only to have them cloned while unconscious before being released in the upper levels of Undermountain. Their only escape from being his lackies in the future would require them to destroy their cloned bodies nesting in the depths of Halaster's dungeon - thus needing to defeat Blackcloak himself. Hence the halfling's motivation for a deal with the devil literally. (ii) The fighter is looking to reclaim a 2-part artefact that shape-changes into a weapon (he doesn't yet know it's the [I]Rod of Seven Parts[/I]) that he lost from an unfortunate interaction with an [URL='https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=MRwvuTzy&id=4730C55F59FF235005332862CE682429E417D5A8&thid=OIP.MRwvuTzyw-3mxidjN8tUfgHaH5&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.dungeonsolvers.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2018%2f12%2fDG9H1GSVYAA3LzH-494x527.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.311c2fb93cf2c3ede6c6276337cb547e%3frik%3dqNUX5CkkaM5iKA%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=527&expw=494&q=Everlasting+one+5e&simid=607996558668621503&FORM=IRPRST&ck=6D9A20AC421CD428B4288A7CA2F85A21&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0']Everlasting One[/URL]. His delving into his parents history and disappearance had him uncover some lore on the multiverse and the [I]City of Doors[/I]. He died against the greater mummy [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Diderius']Diderius[/URL] when the party was attempting to use the tomb's divination pool to establish the location of the blue dragon mask. However a young Immortal (long last companion of the party) petitioned for his soul in Kelemvor's [I]City of Judgement[/I] when he would have otherwise been sent to the [I]Wall of the Faithless [/I]since he didn't follow any FR deities. His reforging (resurrection) back into Faerun came at the cost of having his soul stripped from his native Mystara plane and instead bound to the Forgotten Realms universe. (iii) The cleric of Kelemvor is hunting down a madman (an old PC) who seeks to return the [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/At%27ar']Merciless At'ar[/URL] back into the pantheon. The madman very much following the mantra [I]"What is dead, may never die". [/I]Having uncovered ancient creation/life runes in hidden treasure caches of Ostoria, the madman now seeks to uncover the rumoured portals in [URL='https://realmofadventure.fandom.com/wiki/At%27ar%27s_Looking_Glass']At'ar's Looking Glass[/URL] in the hopes of locating At'ar's corpse in the Astral plane and utilising said runes. (iv) The artificer is seeking the knowledge of true science which he believes has been lost and plagued with the impurities of magic. In his quest he met with a power-stripped Elminster (long story) who requested from him a favour that he is now unable to deliver on himself: [I]To safeguard his ward and discover the truth of her origin[/I]. His ward being a creature from the monster menagerie from [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/308497/Arcana-of-the-Ancients']Arcana of the Ancients[/URL] which serves to be a stepping stone in the direction of the lore the artificer is so desperate to uncover. All this while Faerun is out of kilt with the (a) [I]Ordning[/I] being shattered (SKT), and the arrival of [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Hartkiller']Hartkiller[/URL] (Heartkiller's Horn DDAL05-17), which would create a giant power struggle amongst the giants should [I]King Hekaton[/I] be found and returned to his throne. Would the giants stand behind the storm giant King or Annam's very own? And can this all be resolved before (b); (b) impending arrival of Tiamat at the [I]Well of Dragons[/I] as the [I]Cult of the Dragon[/I] now firmly infiltrated by the [I]Church of Tiamat,[/I] hence the reinterpretation on [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Maglas']Maglas's[/URL] writings (ToD); and let us not forget (c) Szass Tam creating dracoliches with the use of soulstones given to him by traditionalists of the [I]Cult of the Dragon [/I]from[I] Xonthal's Keep[/I] in an effort to defeat Tiamat and her forces as well as conquer the Sword Coast ([URL='https://www.dmsguild.com/product/234490/A-Mission-to-Thay--Nethwatch-Keep']Mission to Thay: Nethwatch Keep[/URL]); and this then in the backdrop of (d) Vlaakith CLVII's assisting her ally Tiamat by secretly deploying a battalion of Githyanki warriors and knights at the [I]Well of Dragons[/I]. [SPOILER="Allies of Tiamat from the FR wiki"]Years after their exile in the Astral Plane, during the continuing war with the illithids, Gith's advisor, Vlaakith I, suggested that she search for allies in the [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Outer_Planes']Outer Planes[/URL], in particular from [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tiamat']Tiamat[/URL]. Gith agreed to visit the [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nine_Hells']Nine Hells[/URL] for an audience, but never returned. Instead, the red dragon envoy Ephelomon returned with a pledge from Tiamat that all red dragons would be allies to the githyanki and that a small contingent of red dragons would serve them as steeds. The envoy also decreed that Vlaakith I and her descendants would rule the githyanki in Gith's stead.[URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Githyanki#cite_note-MM5e-p158-160-1'][1][/URL][URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Githyanki#cite_note-MTF5e-p86-87-29'][27][/URL][URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Githyanki#cite_note-DM100-p97-98-44'][42][/URL] Vlaakith I also played a crucial role in securing the githyanki's position in the Astral Plane.[URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Githyanki#cite_note-MTF5e-p86-87-29'][27][/URL] Ephelomon remained Vlaakith's consort ever since[/SPOILER] And should the party be victorious in their assault of the [I]Well of Dragons[/I] and defeat Tiamat, along with them having played [URL='https://www.dmsguild.com/product/242645/The-LichQueens-Begotten']The Lich Queen's Begotten[/URL] - it would make sense to lead into [URL='https://paizo.com/dungeonissues/100/Dungeon100Enhancement.pdf']The Lich Queen's Beloved[/URL] since players (ii)-(iv) scope is already beyond the Faerun setting. Now I could do all this and the myriad other storylines intersecting the above at lower levels, but why in Flint Fireforge's name would I want to? [/QUOTE]
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