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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 1756612" data-attributes="member: 19675">Lord P, I understand the compulsion to get snippy, on occasion. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />   However, just as several people have defended the equation, several people have punched holes in it.I mean, I don't have time to do it right now, but if you wish, I can point out individual posts that disprove each of the statements I say have been disproven.For example, FreeTheSlave's latest post points out the non-aligned nature of negative energy and the existence of non-evil negative energy spells.  Thus, my first and last statements stand- mere use of negative energy or negative energy spells is an insufficient condition to call something evil.Arkhandus, some other day, some other thread, we can continue the discussion on the deaths of innocents- it really doesn't matter right now.  But trust me, I know of exceptions- I'm Phi Sigma Tau (philosophy honors society), and had to go through years of discussing that problem.At any rate, you wrote:And:Yet you also say:And:Your examples are the same kind of ends justifying the means rationale you condemn in the creation of undead.  This is no less a utilitarianistic argument than any of mine.  How does casting ISW or Soul Bind differ from creating undead?  I may be trying to do good, raising an undead army to save innocent refugees from attack, after all.By your own logic, how can trapping some being's soul in a gem, cutting it off from possible paradise (or damnation or ressurection) NOT be evil?  "Because I'm good and he is bad" isn't a valid justification.Soul Bind does the same thing you claim some of the evil undead-creating spells do- it binds the soul of a sentient being to a place where it cannot be ressurected, raised, or even wished to freedom.  Now, that spell doesn't explicitly channel negative energy- while necromantic in school, it is essentially a conjuration because you have summoned the being's soul into the sapphire- but the mere channelling of negative energy is not an evil act.  Otherwise, Enervate and Energy Drain would be Evil.To continue, from their descriptions, Blight and Circle of Death would be evil...unless there's some other force that snuffs out life-force.  And why would merely being able to tell with a glance the health status of creatures be evil, as per Deathwatch, when necromantic spells that actually harm or kill are not?  Vampiric Touch isn't evil, nor is Slay Living.  And of all the necromantic Symbols, only Pain is evil, not even Symbol of Death rises to that level.  All those necromancy spells- how do they damage without negative energy (and thus, by your logic, avoid being evil)?What I'm saying here in aggregate is that the treatment of necromancy and negative energy is inconsistent and arbitrary, and the treatment of undeath is similarly arbitrary.I mean, either channeling negative energy is evil or it isn't- degree shouldn't matter.  If it did, a spell that channelled excessive amounts of positive energy into a living being to kill it would also be capital "E" evil. If, as you admit, negative energy carries no taint, then how can you assert that channelling lots of it be evil?  After all, if T(Taint of Evil)=0, then 50xT=0.For something to be evil, you have to look at motive.  Mens Rea, as we lawyers call it- Evil Mind- is required for criminal culpability.Demons, Devils-they're evil because they consistenly make the choice to do evil.  From RW religion, Satan/Lucifer (the model for many demons and devils in D&D) wasn't created evil, he chose evil.  They have the option of making the choice to do good, and do the opposite.  If you have an example of an evil being who has changed alignment yet still detects as evil, I'd be forced to say that that is probably based on contagion or a philosophy requiring posthumous repentence for evil acts not repented for in life.As for good aligned undead- others have rightly pointed out they aren't core rules.  They are, however, official WOTC products, and several are not campaign world specific.  So while you may not accept the Deathless of Erberron, what about those from BoED?Edited to change order of paragraphs to enhance clarity.</blockquote>

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