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Why does Wizards of the Coast hate Wizards?
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 7849892" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>Not really. I'll break down what it gives</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lore Master@2: You get expertise in Arcana, History, Nature, & Religion. All of those skills are int based sure, but it's still blocked from being meaningful by<em> "Skills: Choose two skills from Arcana, Deception, History, Intimidation, Investigation, Nature, and Religion" </em>on the wizard itself. Compare that to 3.5 where you had 2+int skill points and the folloing class skills: <em> Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge arcana, Knowledge arcana & engineering, Knowledge dungeoneering, knowledge geography, knowledge history, knowledge local, knowledge nsture, knowledge nature, knowledge nobility & royalty, knowledge psionics, knowledge religion, knowledge the planes, profession, spellcraft</em>. Those were all condensed into a couple skills (mostly arcana/history/nature) & ent from there being too many for anyone to feasibly keep up so the wizard always kinda knew at least a little of that knowledge no matter their roll but nowit's so easy to learn one of those condensed skills that it's more a matter of who rolls higher.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spell secretsA @2: At will elemental substitution... Damage types used to be absurdly important in prior editions, now it's almost entirely "you don't want to deal nonmagic damage or use lightning against an iron golem". In the past it would have been stupid powerful, but in 5e it's barely a step from being a ribbon.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> SpellSecretsB@2: You can change a spell from using one saving throw to using a different saving throw. This is <em>huge </em> and allows you to do things like make an int charisma targeting web or a strength save feeblemind... but being locked behind a single archtype rather than tacked onto the core class but restricted to wizard spells it's meaningless to wizards as a whole</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">slchemical casting @6: It lets you do some interesting metamagicish things with spells by expending extra spell slots, while certainly interesting & useful for a certain kind of build, I think it's more of one archtype's gimmick than a replacement leg for the wizard table mentioned earlier.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Prodigious memory @10: Basically it says 1/long rest the lore wizard can swap one "maybe I'll need this" c list prepped spell with " of crap I need this instead". Wotc's own statistics show most games fizzle out by or shortly after level 10 so even within the archtype itself it's of dubious & limited value if it has any at all.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Master of magic @14: Useful & if this were a feat that only wizards could take it wouldn't even get hate because it's so nice.... but as an unlock for one archtype at level 14 it's even more irrelevant to that wizard table.</li> </ul><p>So... no it doesn't really overcome anything because it either fails to understand the problem & is hobbled by how 5e works (ie with skills & lore master) or because it's limited to one archtype at a level that makes it pointless even to that archtype</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 7849892, member: 93670"] Not really. I'll break down what it gives [LIST] [*]Lore Master@2: You get expertise in Arcana, History, Nature, & Religion. All of those skills are int based sure, but it's still blocked from being meaningful by[I] "Skills: Choose two skills from Arcana, Deception, History, Intimidation, Investigation, Nature, and Religion" [/I]on the wizard itself. Compare that to 3.5 where you had 2+int skill points and the folloing class skills: [I] Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge arcana, Knowledge arcana & engineering, Knowledge dungeoneering, knowledge geography, knowledge history, knowledge local, knowledge nsture, knowledge nature, knowledge nobility & royalty, knowledge psionics, knowledge religion, knowledge the planes, profession, spellcraft[/I]. Those were all condensed into a couple skills (mostly arcana/history/nature) & ent from there being too many for anyone to feasibly keep up so the wizard always kinda knew at least a little of that knowledge no matter their roll but nowit's so easy to learn one of those condensed skills that it's more a matter of who rolls higher. [*]Spell secretsA @2: At will elemental substitution... Damage types used to be absurdly important in prior editions, now it's almost entirely "you don't want to deal nonmagic damage or use lightning against an iron golem". In the past it would have been stupid powerful, but in 5e it's barely a step from being a ribbon. [*] SpellSecretsB@2: You can change a spell from using one saving throw to using a different saving throw. This is [I]huge [/I] and allows you to do things like make an int charisma targeting web or a strength save feeblemind... but being locked behind a single archtype rather than tacked onto the core class but restricted to wizard spells it's meaningless to wizards as a whole [*]slchemical casting @6: It lets you do some interesting metamagicish things with spells by expending extra spell slots, while certainly interesting & useful for a certain kind of build, I think it's more of one archtype's gimmick than a replacement leg for the wizard table mentioned earlier. [*]Prodigious memory @10: Basically it says 1/long rest the lore wizard can swap one "maybe I'll need this" c list prepped spell with " of crap I need this instead". Wotc's own statistics show most games fizzle out by or shortly after level 10 so even within the archtype itself it's of dubious & limited value if it has any at all. [*] Master of magic @14: Useful & if this were a feat that only wizards could take it wouldn't even get hate because it's so nice.... but as an unlock for one archtype at level 14 it's even more irrelevant to that wizard table. [/LIST] So... no it doesn't really overcome anything because it either fails to understand the problem & is hobbled by how 5e works (ie with skills & lore master) or because it's limited to one archtype at a level that makes it pointless even to that archtype [/QUOTE]
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