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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 7850892" data-attributes="member: 6750235">And we have always known cantrips count as spells.  It's possible to create a cantrip spell scroll but the rules given prevents wizards from scribing them into spell books regardless of finding them listed that way (which I think was simply either convenience or bad editing).  NPC spell casters vary from PC spell casters when a person looks at their stat blocks and abilities as well.That note on cantrips being spells under that bard note isn't a change or new information.  It's just a reminder.  That's why bards already select cantrips using magical secrets, for example.The exact same argument already came and went years ago.  Cantrips are spells known to wizards.  The wizard spell book contains spells of 1st-level or higher.  Adding spells while leveling requires the spells use spells slots.   Copying spells into the spell book requires the spells to be 1st level per higher according the sidebar for those rules in the PHB.You lost this argument years ago.  The process for PC wizards doesn't allow for scribing cantrips into spell books in the first place, adding them to the spell book via leveling, or start with cantrips in the spell either.</blockquote>