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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7853826" data-attributes="member: 22779">To be honest though, my beef with cantrips isn't that they overshadow fighter (or fighter types).  There's a whole shopping list of things that overshadow fighters before you get to cantrips, so, IMO, it's a pretty minor thing.No, my beef with cantrips is that they dominate the classes that have them.  That's fine for Wizards, Sorcs, and Warlocks.  They're supposed to be chucking fire from their hands - nearly every fantasy art piece and Harry Potter both tell me that's true.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  But, since when are clerics and druids pew pew casters?  Clerics are front line combatants - that's why they have heavy armor and good weapon selection.  They aren't supposed to be standing beside the wizard chucking balls of fi... I mean.. radiance.  They're supposed to be standing beside the fighter laying the beat down.  Not quite as well as the fighter does, but, holding their own in their own right.However, cantrips for clerics and druids are FAR better than whatever weapon they might want to use.  They don't get iterative attacks like fighters, so, their weapon capabilities don't scale.  Sure, you might get a few class bonuses to weapon attacks, but, at best those are just keeping up with cantrips.  I find it very off putting that the divine classes get pushed very hard to use cantrips instead of weapon attacks.  If we're going to do that, stop giving them good weapons and armor and hit dice and just make them specialized wizards.  Far simpler and a lot less contradictory.</blockquote>

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