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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Haffrung Helleyes" data-source="post: 5104033" data-attributes="member: 1068">High level spells in D&DHere's something to consider:1st edition D&D had 9 levels of spells, but due to the exponential XP system it was very unlikely that PCs ever got to cast the 8th and 9th level spells.  I don't think I ever saw Shapechange cast in 1E D&D;  the highest level character I ever had as a kid was level 14 (and we were insanely munchkin).Then 3E came out, and Monte/Skip/Johnathan made two decisions that caused this problem.  1) they placed a high premium on continuity with older editions.  Shapechange did what it did because it always had.2) they changed the XP chart so that a typical once a week campaign got to level 20 in a year or two.Now, the problem was, a lot of those level 8 and 9 spells had NEVER been balanced -- even when Gary wrote them.  But their problems weren't seen in play.Pathfinder tries to clean up most of these issues, while simultaneoulsy attempting to remain as compatible as possible with earlier versions of D&D.  But it's an iterative process, so there are still many options in Pathfinder that are better than other options.The 4E designers chose to remake the game from the ground up, putting play balance above all else, and sacrificing the parts of D&D that they couldn't make fit.   Some people like this approach;  others find that the elements removed from the game were essential ones.Personally, I'm glad that we have both systems.  They are different enough in substance that they address different core audiences.  If you're frustrated with 3.5, I suggest you buy both Pathfinder and 4E and consider migrating to one of them.Ken</blockquote>

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