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<blockquote data-quote="Noumenon" data-source="post: 5104662" data-attributes="member: 70102">Wow.&nbsp; This is pretty much a complete answer to &quot;Why doesn't Shapechange make SENSE?&quot;&nbsp; It lets the designers be people who think exactly the same way I do, but get blindsided by unintended consequences.&nbsp; XP!That's interesting!&nbsp; It is the statblocks, really, that make me love 3.5.&nbsp; I remember every tricky ability by using <a href="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/noumenon72/?action=view&amp;current=Allip.gif" target="_blank">index cards</a>.&nbsp; I can't make myself work on the plot because I love spending time on the monsters.&nbsp; I did run a 4E one-shot for my friends recently and looking back, a lot of my OCD stuff went into stuff like themes and motivations that actually came up at the table, because the monsters didn't need it.&nbsp; Great session, too.I think this resolves the other conundrum in this thread: sure Shapechange is unbalanced, but why does it make me mad?&nbsp; It's because I have this irrational love for the details and the game seems to share that, until some design element means none of the details matter and it's an autowin/autofail.&nbsp; But they did care about the details, there was just too much history, too much fantasy, and too many contributors to make game balance the determining factor.I spent a whole thread <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-house-rules/246958-does-anyone-have-easy-fixed-dcs-spot-checks.html" target="_blank">looking into this issue</a> and came up with &quot;Encounters start at a distance of 10 feet times the amount your Spot or Listen check beat the DC. (The DC starts at 0 or the opponents' Hide check, plus the regular modifiers.)&nbsp; If you beat the DC by 10 more than the opponents did, you get a surprise round.&quot;Like Snoweel says, this is the rule you actually need -- the Spot check details aren't important except for Hide checks.&nbsp; 4th Edition just has this: &quot;For outdoor encounters, start the characters 10 squares away from the monsters.&quot; (DMG p. 60)&nbsp; Plus exceptions for fog and flatlands, that's all you need.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Noumenon, post: 5104662, member: 70102"] Wow. This is pretty much a complete answer to "Why doesn't Shapechange make SENSE?" It lets the designers be people who think exactly the same way I do, but get blindsided by unintended consequences. XP! That's interesting! It is the statblocks, really, that make me love 3.5. I remember every tricky ability by using [URL="http://s262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/noumenon72/?action=view&current=Allip.gif"]index cards[/URL]. I can't make myself work on the plot because I love spending time on the monsters. I did run a 4E one-shot for my friends recently and looking back, a lot of my OCD stuff went into stuff like themes and motivations that actually came up at the table, because the monsters didn't need it. Great session, too. I think this resolves the other conundrum in this thread: sure Shapechange is unbalanced, but why does it make me [i]mad[/i]? It's because I have this irrational love for the details and the game seems to share that, until some design element means none of the details [B]matter[/B] and it's an autowin/autofail. But they did care about the details, there was just too much history, too much fantasy, and too many contributors to make game balance the determining factor. I spent a whole thread [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-house-rules/246958-does-anyone-have-easy-fixed-dcs-spot-checks.html"]looking into this issue[/URL] and came up with "Encounters start at a distance of 10 feet times the amount your Spot or Listen check beat the DC. (The DC starts at 0 or the opponents' Hide check, plus the regular modifiers.) If you beat the DC by 10 more than the opponents did, you get a surprise round." Like Snoweel says, this is the rule you actually need -- the Spot check details aren't important except for Hide checks. 4th Edition just has this: "For outdoor encounters, start the characters 10 squares away from the monsters." (DMG p. 60) Plus exceptions for fog and flatlands, that's all you need. [/QUOTE]

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