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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7444685" data-attributes="member: 6880599">Not true. I suggested on the first page that the helping character should roll the dice so that they can see the impact of their help and the two should narrate what happens as a pair. That encourages player engagement and means they can't just raise a hand and say "I help him" or "I cast Guidance", over and over and over. Since the players are narrating what they are doing they are more involved and the GM is not humiliating them as stated in some other posts. This however is not a GM preventing a rule or a fix for a mechanic. Your problem with them hand waving is not the system but the lack of the players role-playing it. So have them role play it. Don't blame the help mechanic that is working as intended and allows for what your asking.... The same with guidance. When they cast guidance make them say a phrase like calling to their Deity for aid each time. If its too much work for them to use a feature they will only do it when they feel its necessary and if you ensure they a big show of it they will understand why casting guidance flailing your arms about and calling out for their deities support as the Verbal and Somatic components of the spell require gave them disadvantage on their stealth role / persuasion role or strait up got them notice and or kicked out of the shop. I am just saying stop trying to "fix" your players lazy role-playing by changing the rule as first result and instead address your players role-playing by calling them out when they get lazy with it. I think you will find it will fix more than this one issue and your group is likely to have more fun then arguing over homebrew rules that they don't want to follow because they don't see the need for that restrict them from using an ability you don't have an issue with them using as long as its role-played and not hand waved.I have also never seen a shortage of players trying new and unusual ways to do something when they fail to do it the first time with help. ...that doesn't mean they aren't going to try the help acton to force a door open before they start looking into their back to find something to blow it up, a horse to help ripe it down, or a window so the can climb into in an attempt to unlock it.</blockquote>

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