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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7444703" data-attributes="member: 6880599">If the GM called for a test then the GM already decided that, so you should not be surprised when they say "I help". If the GM sets up a goal ... expect the players to want to achieve it by the best means that they can. I am still going to require proficiency and the ability to assist. I don't really believe anyone said they were assuming players could always help. Right, I said I require proficiency too. However, I their are times when people help indirectly or directly without proficiency which I find is usually an alteration of the DC not a removal or addition of advantage. An in game example, a player tries to intimidate the last remaining enemy, "Look buddy, there are six of us, we have you surrounded, and you just watched us kill 8 of your friends... if you want to live throw down your weapon...NOW", If what the player is saying is true and you have five other characters standing in a circle around the enemy with 8 bodies of his fallen team at their feet ...its going to make that very true statement very reduce the DC significantly... If another proficient intimidating character says "your buddy agrees with us" and holds up just the head of one of his friends ... I would also give him advantage for this other player providing a help action.Of course that's the job of the GM, I don't really see any disagreement so far...No one said their would always give advantage on everything out of combat but you. I said they would have to be proficient and able to help. If your alone in the room and try something and another player says "I help" then the GM gives them a funny look and says "you're not even their .. so no you don't." and the game continues. I have never had a player at the same table as GM or player ever dispute a legitimate reason they can't including lack of proficiency. Using a rope to lower the DC of climbing is pretty standard their is no disagreement their but what your really saying is you want your players to role-play support... So make the helping player role his advantage dice and describe how they help or fail to help setting the stage as role play. If a player pulls out some climbing gear or hands down a rope ... lower the DC accordingly. There is nothing about what you said that requires a mechanical change to the help action to achieve your stated goal. Your comments are written as concerned rebuttal to what I said but in no way actually disagree with what I said or how to fix it but with the exception your claiming advantage in all things when I specifically called out that I would not do that. In my very first post on the first page, I said "The only thing about this system is that it doesn't allow more than one proficient person to help." so immediately you have to know their are times when you only have one player at a location doing a task who is proficient and no help action can be given. Also, don't count holding the flashlight as a help action...but I would possible lower the DC depending on the situation, if their is already plenty of light maybe not even that.</blockquote>

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