Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why doesn't the help action have more limits and down sides?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7446999" data-attributes="member: 6880599"><p>So the way I see it the DMG does not allow for high enough test because their is not marked improvement one you pass DC 25, <strong>Its not about trying to pass the test anymore its about reducing your chance at failing roles.</strong> Expertise + max skill means most skill tests can be reduced to 15% failure at late game but potions of storm giant +9 strength modifier (+4) on checks or gloves of thievery +5 to open locks and toms that raise attribute above 20, can actually make it impossible to fail specific tests as high as 28. So following on the low test DC of materials and the advantage that help actions might give to those would lead to a DC map like this:</p><p></p><p>DC44 Might actually be an impossible auto fail, I can't think of any skill test magic item that adds more than a +5 or stacks.</p><p>DC39 Requires magic either skill bonus or tome that raises ability scores beyond 20 with the exception of an athletics test by a barbarian with expertise. </p><p>DC37 (This is the peek of basic stars align impossible test without magical involvement but not without any hope making it an auto fail test... Natural 20 + 5 Ability bonus +12 Expertise</p><p>DC33 (Impossible for even the best trained unless they have the natural ability to back it up)</p><p>DC30 (<strong>Impossible without training or magical items</strong>, but difficult even then.)</p><p>DC25 (Impossible without training or a great deal of natural talent or magical items)</p><p>DC20 (<strong>Hard</strong> but not impossible for an unskilled character to do this without but it does happen unless they have a deficiency -1 in such things)</p><p>DC15 (<strong>Challenging</strong> but some times it an unskilled character will surprise you, with a high roll)</p><p>DC10 (<strong>easy</strong> but fail able, particularly if your don't know what your doing meaning your not proficient)</p><p>DC 5 (Generally an automatic pass for anyone proficient, but who knows, if someone without proficiency or natural ability it could make for an amusing fail)</p><p></p><p>But I don't think help actions require or break the basic DC25 max because they don't raise the skills max they just reduce failure roles. Its kind of the same thought you see in not bothering to list DCs above DC25 that would be possible by some specific classes and abilities.</p><p></p><p>I think <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?16814-Ovinomancer" target="_blank"><strong>Ovinomancer</strong></a><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="color: #3e3e3e"> kind of points to the same thing on his post at the top of this page.</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ClaytonCross, post: 7446999, member: 6880599"] So the way I see it the DMG does not allow for high enough test because their is not marked improvement one you pass DC 25, [B]Its not about trying to pass the test anymore its about reducing your chance at failing roles.[/B] Expertise + max skill means most skill tests can be reduced to 15% failure at late game but potions of storm giant +9 strength modifier (+4) on checks or gloves of thievery +5 to open locks and toms that raise attribute above 20, can actually make it impossible to fail specific tests as high as 28. So following on the low test DC of materials and the advantage that help actions might give to those would lead to a DC map like this: DC44 Might actually be an impossible auto fail, I can't think of any skill test magic item that adds more than a +5 or stacks. DC39 Requires magic either skill bonus or tome that raises ability scores beyond 20 with the exception of an athletics test by a barbarian with expertise. DC37 (This is the peek of basic stars align impossible test without magical involvement but not without any hope making it an auto fail test... Natural 20 + 5 Ability bonus +12 Expertise DC33 (Impossible for even the best trained unless they have the natural ability to back it up) DC30 ([B]Impossible without training or magical items[/B], but difficult even then.) DC25 (Impossible without training or a great deal of natural talent or magical items) DC20 ([B]Hard[/B] but not impossible for an unskilled character to do this without but it does happen unless they have a deficiency -1 in such things) DC15 ([B]Challenging[/B] but some times it an unskilled character will surprise you, with a high roll) DC10 ([B]easy[/B] but fail able, particularly if your don't know what your doing meaning your not proficient) DC 5 (Generally an automatic pass for anyone proficient, but who knows, if someone without proficiency or natural ability it could make for an amusing fail) But I don't think help actions require or break the basic DC25 max because they don't raise the skills max they just reduce failure roles. Its kind of the same thought you see in not bothering to list DCs above DC25 that would be possible by some specific classes and abilities. I think [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?16814-Ovinomancer"][B]Ovinomancer[/B][/URL][SIZE=2][COLOR=#3e3e3e] kind of points to the same thing on his post at the top of this page.[/COLOR][/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why doesn't the help action have more limits and down sides?
Top