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Message: <blockquote data-quote="haakon1" data-source="post: 4684630" data-attributes="member: 25619">My theory: there are more computers, internet users, and Amazon customers in 2008 than in 2000.  Therefore, I don't know if you observation is significant or not.  I understand that self-selecting polls are inaccurate.  (That all internet polling is less accurate than all phone polling is not proven -- one of the more accurate polls in the Presidential election was an internet poll and the internet betting on political results is quite reliable.)  However, the reason self-selecting polling is inaccurate is because it (might) give a disproportionate weighting to people who care more about the subject, and given the level of passion around the edition change on both sides, I doubt 4e fans were disproportionately wilting lillies who didn't want their voices counted.  And there's no denying this is the most popular D&D site on the internet.  So dismissing that 45% of the hundreds of people who completed the polls, care most about D&D (bothering to be here), and are thought-leaders in the peer groups (well, if you believe the poll that ~80% of the people here are DM's) don't like the product, that just seems silly to me.Clearly, a LOT of D&D customers don't like 4e and aren't buying it.  Whether "a lot" is 15% or 75% you can dispute, but it's a significant number.If your point is "the real number may not be 45%, it might be something very different", fair enough.  But given a lack of any other data, I'll GUESS it's probably somewhere in that general vicinity.You said my opinion was wrong because my observations were from "my FLGS", implying that my N was 1 and that it was a self-selected sample of only stores I agree with.  I corrected that: my sample size was 6, not 1; it included one store that sold the books at WotC's 4e launch party so clearly is not a partisan anti-4e or anti-WotC store, and it included 100% of the D&D stores known to EnWorld players in 1 country where I'd never been to a game store before (Singapore).  I submit that's not an entirely worthless sample set.  My observation from that data set is, I think, non-controversial: significant numbers of stores have not converted fully to 4e.If you think that's not the case, what's your observation about FLGS conversion to 4e?I think I've been clear as to my sources/observations all along; if not, that wasn't my intent.  Disagreeing with my opinion and criticizing my sources/observations is one thing.  Saying I'm dishonest and don't respect my fellow gamers is another.  I understand emotions get out of control easily in internet discussions, but I'm trying hard to be civil, so I'd appreciate the same from you.  If I've been unclear or have come across as insulting to you and you're reacting to that, I apologize -- let's both drop it.  We should undoubtably stop this conversation anyhow, for two reasons:1) The poll argument is kinda pointless.  It's just plain true that self-selecting polls are inaccurate.  How inaccurate these particular polls are is the question, and we'll never settle it.  I admit the 45% is just a guess . . . but directionally, I don't see why it would be completely wrong.2) IMHO, most of this comes down to "I don't like 3e" and "you like 4e".  That's not going to change, so there's no point arguing around the point and pretending it's about something else.As long as you admit 4e has been rejected by a significant number of D&D customers, and there's no particular basis for the theory (which may not even have been yours, I don't remember) that "everyone will convert eventually", I happy to walk away and agree the details are unknown to us.</blockquote>

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