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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sekhmet" data-source="post: 6084250" data-attributes="member: 97602">[MENTION=93444]shidaku[/MENTION] My argument is that, within D&D, there has never been a mention of Barbarians being trained soldiers, and that Fighters are traditionally such a wide variety of kinds of people, that forcing them into the soldier role (one of the many that are open to them) is inappropriate. I'm all for giving these people skills for different backgrounds, but tacking them on to the base class is sloppy and inappropriate. The Barbarian from the North, for example, might have Survival (very difficult place to live), Climb (avalanches and rockfalls can alter terrain dramatically), or Jump (leaping from rock to rock is a constant consideration in mountain climbing). He probably has Use Rope. He wouldn't have Swim (water is deadly in these environments, you steer clear), and he definitely wouldn't have Search (extra time spent in the wilderness means extra possibilities of snowstorms, frigid wind, or encounters), though you could argue for Spot. The Barbarian from the Jungle wouldn't have Jump (there really isn't a need to jump in a Jungle), but he'd have Climb (ambushing from trees). While he'd still may pick up Survival (though far less necessary in the jungle than in the North), he's far more likely to be able to Swim.  The Barbarian from the Plains might have picked up Ride instead of Jump and Climb. No real need for jumping or climbing, and Spot isn't really an issue anymore, either. Survival is slightly more important than in the Jungle, but still not a primary concern.  The Fighter who was a Soldier would have no need for Survival - his food, trail, and safety is secured by other members of the military with those specific jobs. He can probably run, for a long time, and then kill things when he gets there. He doesn't jump, climb, swim, or use ropes. He doesn't have Knowledge - Anything, and he was likely never taught to ride animals. The Fighter who was a Nobleman, who became a proud Knight, will have Diplomacy, Knowledge (Military Tactics or History), Ride, and Spot, without a doubt. He picked up spotting while on long hunts with his father and betters, was drilled in history and tactics from the time he was a child, and riding has become second nature to him.  He has no business jumping, climbing, or living in the wilderness.  The Fighter who was an Enforcer for some criminal organisation picked up an entirely different set of skills - Spot, Search, Intimidate, and Handle Animal could be called for.  All trained Fighters - pick up sword, swing at things, but with a variety of different skills based on the environment their background puts them in.  ALL Wizards MUST learn Knowledge skills during training as a Wizard. ALL Monks MUST learn athleticism skills during training as a Monk. ALL Rogues MUST learn thievery during training as a Rogue. NOT ALL Fighters or Barbarians MUST learn skills outside of hitting things and taking hits.   This is the reason they do not get bonus skills.</blockquote>

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