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Why Don't We Simplify 5e?
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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8378158" data-attributes="member: 86653"><p>Sure. I get that. But it's a false sense of control and protection. The GM is still there and can still make a call. The players can point to the book all they want, but ultimately the GM is in charge of the game. The rules don't replace the GM. The GMs make the rules. As long as they're not tyrants about it, it works just fine. A lot of those players need to lighten up. If someone wants a game with a GM but also wants to be protected from the GM, I'd suggest they don't actually want an RPG.</p><p></p><p>I'm just lucky I guess. Sorry. It's never come up.</p><p></p><p>Yep.</p><p></p><p>You realize that we're not sitting at a table or on a VTT playing a game, right? So there's no need for me to immediately respond to you. That's the benefit of this social media thing.</p><p></p><p>They are. When it matters, i.e. when it comes up in game, it will be answered. Like the particulars of the economic structure of a small western village that relies heavily on wool exports. The precise details of that don't actually matter until it comes up in game. The exact distance an armoured adventurer can jump are irrelevant until it matters in game at the table. Likewise the DC table for summoning dangerous liquids and gases. I suspect the majority of players want that up front so they can base their decisions about their characters on those facts. "Huh. Summoning chlorine gas is easier than hitting 90% of monsters' AC. I guess I'm playing a chlorine gas wizard." That's backwards. World and character first. Game mechanics dead last. If at all.</p><p></p><p>The absurdity and insistence of most of these questions suggest it.</p><p></p><p>No. Not doesn't <em>get</em> to, doesn't <em>need</em> to up front. The player doesn't need to read an exhaustive encyclopedia entry on the world before the game. If the player makes an incorrect assumption about the world, the GM can correct them. Likewise the rules. Neither matter until they come up in the game. If you say you want to fly, I'll ask you how since you don't have wings. You tell me you have a spell that lets you fly and I'll describe you flying and ask where you want to go. Before that exchange there's literally zero need for the player to know the ins and outs of the flying rules. The name of the local lord where you grew up, common knowledge. Either you read that encyclopedia entry and try to retain all of it, or you simply ask the GM for the info during the game when it actually comes up. You don't need to read and try to memorize the encyclopedia entry when the person who wrote it is sitting across the table and willing to answer questions.</p><p></p><p>It's information the GM should already know. It is written down. In all those books about historical weapons ranges you mentioned. The players are free to read the same books. But unless it comes up in game how far a crossbow can fire, it doesn't matter. The weird thing about relying on game books is that they're often wrong about things like that. Some are better than others, but things are often changed for the fun of it. Like loading times of blackpowder weapons for example, or crossbows. So instead you go with the actual facts of things like that. The people who're interested in medieval warfare can correct the GM if/when they're wrong. It's really not anywhere near as complicated as you two are making it out to be.</p><p></p><p>No. It's easier to roll when it actually matters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8378158, member: 86653"] Sure. I get that. But it's a false sense of control and protection. The GM is still there and can still make a call. The players can point to the book all they want, but ultimately the GM is in charge of the game. The rules don't replace the GM. The GMs make the rules. As long as they're not tyrants about it, it works just fine. A lot of those players need to lighten up. If someone wants a game with a GM but also wants to be protected from the GM, I'd suggest they don't actually want an RPG. I'm just lucky I guess. Sorry. It's never come up. Yep. You realize that we're not sitting at a table or on a VTT playing a game, right? So there's no need for me to immediately respond to you. That's the benefit of this social media thing. They are. When it matters, i.e. when it comes up in game, it will be answered. Like the particulars of the economic structure of a small western village that relies heavily on wool exports. The precise details of that don't actually matter until it comes up in game. The exact distance an armoured adventurer can jump are irrelevant until it matters in game at the table. Likewise the DC table for summoning dangerous liquids and gases. I suspect the majority of players want that up front so they can base their decisions about their characters on those facts. "Huh. Summoning chlorine gas is easier than hitting 90% of monsters' AC. I guess I'm playing a chlorine gas wizard." That's backwards. World and character first. Game mechanics dead last. If at all. The absurdity and insistence of most of these questions suggest it. No. Not doesn't [I]get[/I] to, doesn't [I]need[/I] to up front. The player doesn't need to read an exhaustive encyclopedia entry on the world before the game. If the player makes an incorrect assumption about the world, the GM can correct them. Likewise the rules. Neither matter until they come up in the game. If you say you want to fly, I'll ask you how since you don't have wings. You tell me you have a spell that lets you fly and I'll describe you flying and ask where you want to go. Before that exchange there's literally zero need for the player to know the ins and outs of the flying rules. The name of the local lord where you grew up, common knowledge. Either you read that encyclopedia entry and try to retain all of it, or you simply ask the GM for the info during the game when it actually comes up. You don't need to read and try to memorize the encyclopedia entry when the person who wrote it is sitting across the table and willing to answer questions. It's information the GM should already know. It is written down. In all those books about historical weapons ranges you mentioned. The players are free to read the same books. But unless it comes up in game how far a crossbow can fire, it doesn't matter. The weird thing about relying on game books is that they're often wrong about things like that. Some are better than others, but things are often changed for the fun of it. Like loading times of blackpowder weapons for example, or crossbows. So instead you go with the actual facts of things like that. The people who're interested in medieval warfare can correct the GM if/when they're wrong. It's really not anywhere near as complicated as you two are making it out to be. No. It's easier to roll when it actually matters. [/QUOTE]
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