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Why don't you buy non-WoTC stuff?
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<blockquote data-quote="JohnBrown" data-source="post: 338375" data-attributes="member: 2243"><p>JohnNephew,</p><p></p><p>No, I hadn’t seen Seven Cities, and from reading the description it seems to be the type of product that I was talking about. I will definitely be on the lookout for it at the local game store and check it out.</p><p></p><p>Not to hijack the thread here, and please keep in mind the only thing I know for sure about the product is what I read on the web page, it seems to be as much of a “City Builder’s Guide” as it does a collection of towns, villages, etc. If this is the case, can I ask a question? Of the 144 pages, how much is dedicated to the actual town descriptions, and how much is dedicated to “reference book” material? I haven’t looked at Seven Cities, and I am not passing judgment on it, but the more town descriptions and the less “how-to” material it contains, the more value it would have for me personally.</p><p></p><p>It seems to me that there is a tendency among d20 publishers to try to turn everything they publish into “reference book”, whether or not the subject even warrants such treatment. Perhaps it was WoTC statements (or the d20 companies’ own market research) on how source books make more money than adventure module type products that contributed to this. I could be wrong, of course. It just seems that way when I look at books such as the Quintessential series, or the Slayer’s Guide To series, or the Canting Crew, etc. all lined up on the shelf at the game store. Not to say these are bad products, I am just using them as an illustration.</p><p></p><p>Also, on the odd chance that anyone besides Ranes like my village book idea and want to steal it, go right ahead. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> The sooner d20 companies produce more stuff like that the happier I will be. I just ask you put a small dedication to me near the front. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Here are few more products I could use, so get crackin’! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>1. A book of generic random encounter tables including complete stat blocks for the monsters/caravans/ etc. Include the treasure they are carrying, how close they are to their lair when encountered (and how much treasure they have there as well), some plot hooks for some of them as well (i.e., what were those orcs up to when they unfortunately ran into the PCs). Include multiple encounter tables for various types terrain (say five to 10 each for forests, mountains, plains, hills, civilized areas, etc.). That way I can choose which ones I want to use.</p><p></p><p>2. Generic dungeons/lairs: Think uncompleted module. Have maps, include the monsters, treasure, etc., and possibly even leave some rooms undefined. I can take that and flesh it out much easier that I can try to correct some completely finished piece of work that is based on a premise that just doesn’t work in my campaign. (Generic Goblin Caves, Generic Mind Flayer Lair, etc.) </p><p></p><p>3. More villages, more towns, more cities, but please make them generic (i.e., don’t plaster the name of the city all over the city map, etc.). I can’t stress this enough, generic, generic, generic. Why is this so important? I will give you an example. If I am looking for a city to use for Dyvers in my Greyhawk campaign, any map depicting a city on the south side of a large river will do. However, it says “City of Oaksheild” all over it, or if the accompanying text is so chock full of cutesy stuff that I have to re-do large amounts of it, it kinds of spoils it. </p><p></p><p>Finally, as I said earlier in this thread, make it easy for me to change the text, and I will be one loyal customer.</p><p></p><p>I could see where many people might find this all rather bland and or nit-picky, but remember, I am talking about what kind of products that d20 publishers could produce that <em><strong>I</strong></em> would want to buy. I am not going to buy Bulffside to represent Dyvers, or Rel Mord, or what have you. Bluffside may be a great city book, but it isn’t Dyvers. I want a product called “Large City on the South Side of a Large River” that tells me where the temple district is, where the wizard guild is. How many blacksmiths are there, what are their names, and where are they located, and their stat blocks are. I want someone to do the grunt work and make it easy for me to add the details. For this service, I give them money <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p>I can take “Large City on the South Side of a Large River” and turn into Dyvers. Some else can take it and turn it whatever city they want. I believe that such things would have very broad appeal to home brewers, and published campaign players alike.</p><p></p><p>Or, I could be wrong. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Thanks for listening to me prattle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JohnBrown, post: 338375, member: 2243"] JohnNephew, No, I hadn’t seen Seven Cities, and from reading the description it seems to be the type of product that I was talking about. I will definitely be on the lookout for it at the local game store and check it out. Not to hijack the thread here, and please keep in mind the only thing I know for sure about the product is what I read on the web page, it seems to be as much of a “City Builder’s Guide” as it does a collection of towns, villages, etc. If this is the case, can I ask a question? Of the 144 pages, how much is dedicated to the actual town descriptions, and how much is dedicated to “reference book” material? I haven’t looked at Seven Cities, and I am not passing judgment on it, but the more town descriptions and the less “how-to” material it contains, the more value it would have for me personally. It seems to me that there is a tendency among d20 publishers to try to turn everything they publish into “reference book”, whether or not the subject even warrants such treatment. Perhaps it was WoTC statements (or the d20 companies’ own market research) on how source books make more money than adventure module type products that contributed to this. I could be wrong, of course. It just seems that way when I look at books such as the Quintessential series, or the Slayer’s Guide To series, or the Canting Crew, etc. all lined up on the shelf at the game store. Not to say these are bad products, I am just using them as an illustration. Also, on the odd chance that anyone besides Ranes like my village book idea and want to steal it, go right ahead. :) The sooner d20 companies produce more stuff like that the happier I will be. I just ask you put a small dedication to me near the front. :) Here are few more products I could use, so get crackin’! :) 1. A book of generic random encounter tables including complete stat blocks for the monsters/caravans/ etc. Include the treasure they are carrying, how close they are to their lair when encountered (and how much treasure they have there as well), some plot hooks for some of them as well (i.e., what were those orcs up to when they unfortunately ran into the PCs). Include multiple encounter tables for various types terrain (say five to 10 each for forests, mountains, plains, hills, civilized areas, etc.). That way I can choose which ones I want to use. 2. Generic dungeons/lairs: Think uncompleted module. Have maps, include the monsters, treasure, etc., and possibly even leave some rooms undefined. I can take that and flesh it out much easier that I can try to correct some completely finished piece of work that is based on a premise that just doesn’t work in my campaign. (Generic Goblin Caves, Generic Mind Flayer Lair, etc.) 3. More villages, more towns, more cities, but please make them generic (i.e., don’t plaster the name of the city all over the city map, etc.). I can’t stress this enough, generic, generic, generic. Why is this so important? I will give you an example. If I am looking for a city to use for Dyvers in my Greyhawk campaign, any map depicting a city on the south side of a large river will do. However, it says “City of Oaksheild” all over it, or if the accompanying text is so chock full of cutesy stuff that I have to re-do large amounts of it, it kinds of spoils it. Finally, as I said earlier in this thread, make it easy for me to change the text, and I will be one loyal customer. I could see where many people might find this all rather bland and or nit-picky, but remember, I am talking about what kind of products that d20 publishers could produce that [I][B]I[/B][/I] would want to buy. I am not going to buy Bulffside to represent Dyvers, or Rel Mord, or what have you. Bluffside may be a great city book, but it isn’t Dyvers. I want a product called “Large City on the South Side of a Large River” that tells me where the temple district is, where the wizard guild is. How many blacksmiths are there, what are their names, and where are they located, and their stat blocks are. I want someone to do the grunt work and make it easy for me to add the details. For this service, I give them money :) I can take “Large City on the South Side of a Large River” and turn into Dyvers. Some else can take it and turn it whatever city they want. I believe that such things would have very broad appeal to home brewers, and published campaign players alike. Or, I could be wrong. :) Thanks for listening to me prattle. [/QUOTE]
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