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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8053191" data-attributes="member: 72555">Awesome data.My conclusions are different.DPR is a measure.  If you measure up poorly, it doesn't mean you suck.  You can easily contribute elsewhere.But from your numbers?A hunter ranger is widely considered the 2nd least effective class-subclass in 5e.  Beastmaster ranger being the bottom of the totem pole.Evoker and Paladin put out 50% more pain each.50% is big.  Like, 2 monk/rangers could be replaced with 2 paladins.Even moreso, Paladin is better at spike damage than sustained; while both monks and rangers have more endurance.  So that Paladin damage was probably bigger when they needed it most, and less when it wasn't important.What more?  Paladins have crazy high charop ceiling.  Unless you mentioned it, I presume this was a baseline paladin, nothing janky.---Monks have nearly no charop room.  They fare poorly compared to rogues, especially once you leave "total damage if everything hits" basic anaylsis and account for misses and disengages and the like.And Rogues also suffer from a low charop ceiling.  But a higher one than a monk.  Booming blade, elven accuracy crit fishing, shadowblade, martialmweapon dip/feat + scimitar of speed ready trick, mainlining haste potions, ring of spell storing haste (+ready trick); piles of stuff that give 30% to 80% DPR boost.That amount of charop lets a rogue keep up with a GWM barbarian champion crit fisher (9 barb/11 champ) or a battlemaster sharpshooter or a sorcladin or a gloom stalker assassin fighter alpha stike or a sorcerer ape army or ... piles of stuff.And monks?  20%-30% from the same level of effort that gave the rogue up to 80%.With no feats and MCing, the monk is PHB ranger-tier damage.  It hasnone strong trick - stun storm.I suspect part of the problem is that the subclasses with features at 11 don't carry their weight.  In theory a level 11 subclass feature can match the DPR boosts of primary class level 11 features, but in practice they don't.Gloom 11 is head and sholders above hunter or beast 11, but still sucks compared to fighter 11.  Monks 11 same.  Rogues get a non-combat boost at 11.Use DPR with increasing fidelity as one measure.  The issue is that Monks don't measure up in DPR, falling 33% or more behind stronger classes, and don't seem to bring enough other stuff to the table to make up for that gap.</blockquote>

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