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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 8372912" data-attributes="member: 5142">Please tell me how I was suppose to get all of that in bold out of your earlier comment? I think it's important to recognize the heavy lifting &quot;should&quot; was doing in your argument there and how that may not pan out in typical game play or praxis, particularly when we talk about the styles of games that 5e cultivates and/or gravitates toward (e.g., traditional and neo-traditional play). Who decides the NPCs' attitude? Who decides whether the PCs roleplay the right way or say &quot;the magic words&quot; in a manner that can persuade the NPC? Who decides whether the PCs auto-pass, auto-fail, or require a roll? Who decides the check? Who decides the DC? Who decides and narrates the results of a check? Or even what a PC can or can't know may require GM permission. I'm saying that the gamut of what transpires in the social and exploration pillar is &quot;dependent on the GM&quot; as you like to remind us and can vary more wildly than generally is the case with combat. Some GMs here strongly dislike social skills and require &quot;good roleplay.&quot; Likewise some GMs, particularly of the OSR persuasion, require that the PCs describe every meticulous detail of exploration without relying on skill checks to find the trap or hidden door. The DMG reminds us that the combat pillar is more structured, and there are easily far more player-facing abilities and options regarding combat than the other pillars. This gives players more structured and concrete ways to affect the fiction. Quite a bit actually. We have been talking about which pillars of play 5e typically emphasizes (e.g., combat, exploration, social) and why that is the case, player-facing tools that let players bypass certain pillars, as well as &quot;scripts.&quot; Player agency plays a role in all of this. Or to go back to my earlier point in this thread: when players are given a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Does unfamiliarity with terminology or jargon somehow invalidate it?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 8372912, member: 5142"] Please tell me how I was suppose to get all of that in bold out of your earlier comment? I think it's important to recognize the heavy lifting "should" was doing in your argument there and how that may not pan out in typical game play or praxis, particularly when we talk about the styles of games that 5e cultivates and/or gravitates toward (e.g., traditional and neo-traditional play). Who decides the NPCs' attitude? Who decides whether the PCs roleplay the right way or say "the magic words" in a manner that can persuade the NPC? Who decides whether the PCs auto-pass, auto-fail, or require a roll? Who decides the check? Who decides the DC? Who decides and narrates the results of a check? Or even what a PC can or can't know may require GM permission. I'm saying that the gamut of what transpires in the social and exploration pillar is "dependent on the GM" as you like to remind us and can vary more wildly than generally is the case with combat. Some GMs here strongly dislike social skills and require "good roleplay." Likewise some GMs, particularly of the OSR persuasion, require that the PCs describe every meticulous detail of exploration without relying on skill checks to find the trap or hidden door. The DMG reminds us that the combat pillar is more structured, and there are easily far more player-facing abilities and options regarding combat than the other pillars. This gives players more structured and concrete ways to affect the fiction. Quite a bit actually. We have been talking about which pillars of play 5e typically emphasizes (e.g., combat, exploration, social) and why that is the case, player-facing tools that let players bypass certain pillars, as well as "scripts." Player agency plays a role in all of this. Or to go back to my earlier point in this thread: when players are given a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Does unfamiliarity with terminology or jargon somehow invalidate it? [/QUOTE]

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