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Why Exploration Is the Worst Pillar
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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8376326" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>I'm not going to be able to reference most of these for a while, but I'll try to look at some of them for the sake of the conversation. I did want to pull out these parts though. </p><p></p><p></p><p><em>"Sounds like something the players and DM are responsible for. The game provides the basic parameters, the people provide the imagination to make it fantastic. No?"</em></p><p></p><p>Eh, yes and no. I think I do a fairly decent job of it myself, but a lot of DMs... don't. We are in a normal forest. We are in mountains. We are in a cave. There aren't a lot of... anything interesting. Or if there is it is a pretty description and no substance. As a DM, I can put in what I want, but as a player... not as much.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"<em>No ice storms or volcanoes or tidal waves or extreme temperatures or anti-magic zones or strange planes in your games? </em></p><p><em>Part of where I'm going here: not every character is proficient at every saving throw.</em>"</p><p></p><p>Again, bits and pieces. </p><p></p><p>First off, no, I don't have anti-magic in my games. That stuff breaks more rules and is more trouble than it is worth. </p><p></p><p>Extreme temperatures... aren't that threatening. Extreme cold is auto-passed if you are wearing winter gear, and a DC 10 check if you aren't. For a level 15 party who for some reason is walking in the snow? They are probably going to be fine. Extreme heat is even more forgiving. Sure, disadvantage if you are wearing heavy clothing or medium or heavy armor, but DC 5 and only if you don't have access to drinkable water. A 15th level fighter can trivially walk in this heat for 5 hours without water before even needing to roll. They essentially auto-pass or maybe take a single level of exhaustion.. which is recovered by long resting. </p><p></p><p>Tidal waves are certainly threatening, but to the level that you simply run from them. Though, I'm sure a 15th level druid might have a few ways to deal with a Tidal wave if they were clever. </p><p></p><p>Ice storm... extreme cold but you also get disadvantage on perception checks. </p><p></p><p>Volcano, well those are only dangerous if you fall in the lava. But other than fighting in a currently erupting volcano, there isn't much that you can do with that. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Looking over this list.. yeah, you can have a tidal wave hit the city. Or a volcanoe erupt, but beyond that? Make sure you pack a winter coat and carry water and you are fine in 90% of all other situations even at level 1. By level 9 to 15... what challenges? This stuff doesn't register, and the game doesn't really have a next level, except for the planes... and those that even apply are usually things like "DC 10 check or you become evil" which isn't really a challenge and is more of an annoyance that I don't want. </p><p></p><p>So, the rules really don't seem to provide an environment that is actually meant to be incredibly challenging, even to high level characters.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8376326, member: 6801228"] I'm not going to be able to reference most of these for a while, but I'll try to look at some of them for the sake of the conversation. I did want to pull out these parts though. [I]"Sounds like something the players and DM are responsible for. The game provides the basic parameters, the people provide the imagination to make it fantastic. No?"[/I] Eh, yes and no. I think I do a fairly decent job of it myself, but a lot of DMs... don't. We are in a normal forest. We are in mountains. We are in a cave. There aren't a lot of... anything interesting. Or if there is it is a pretty description and no substance. As a DM, I can put in what I want, but as a player... not as much. "[I]No ice storms or volcanoes or tidal waves or extreme temperatures or anti-magic zones or strange planes in your games? Part of where I'm going here: not every character is proficient at every saving throw.[/I]" Again, bits and pieces. First off, no, I don't have anti-magic in my games. That stuff breaks more rules and is more trouble than it is worth. Extreme temperatures... aren't that threatening. Extreme cold is auto-passed if you are wearing winter gear, and a DC 10 check if you aren't. For a level 15 party who for some reason is walking in the snow? They are probably going to be fine. Extreme heat is even more forgiving. Sure, disadvantage if you are wearing heavy clothing or medium or heavy armor, but DC 5 and only if you don't have access to drinkable water. A 15th level fighter can trivially walk in this heat for 5 hours without water before even needing to roll. They essentially auto-pass or maybe take a single level of exhaustion.. which is recovered by long resting. Tidal waves are certainly threatening, but to the level that you simply run from them. Though, I'm sure a 15th level druid might have a few ways to deal with a Tidal wave if they were clever. Ice storm... extreme cold but you also get disadvantage on perception checks. Volcano, well those are only dangerous if you fall in the lava. But other than fighting in a currently erupting volcano, there isn't much that you can do with that. Looking over this list.. yeah, you can have a tidal wave hit the city. Or a volcanoe erupt, but beyond that? Make sure you pack a winter coat and carry water and you are fine in 90% of all other situations even at level 1. By level 9 to 15... what challenges? This stuff doesn't register, and the game doesn't really have a next level, except for the planes... and those that even apply are usually things like "DC 10 check or you become evil" which isn't really a challenge and is more of an annoyance that I don't want. So, the rules really don't seem to provide an environment that is actually meant to be incredibly challenging, even to high level characters. [/QUOTE]
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