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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8378099" data-attributes="member: 6801228">IF you can't give players benefits without penalizing them, then the game is not playable. It is just a pantomime of forever keeping them running in place.Edit: Might as well keep this to one postI get that hit points are a resource, but if your goal is just to do anything possible to make the hp number go down, no matter what I do. Then I'd rather save the hour and half of talking through every single detail of everything, take the damage and move on. My IRL gaming time is worth more than a few hitpoints I'm going to lose either way.Yes, it was a dream dungeon and we had gone here repeatedly. It was also massive. Even with a perfectly accurate map and multiple sessions I think we only got to the second floor.I wouldn't have even bothered with that. But this is the thing people seem to always miss in these discussions "I would never do that" never means "No one would ever do that." This isn't even the only DM or the only scenario where I've been in this exact same situation. We are going to get through the door (and yes, it is almost always doors) but we roll, and fail, and someone else rolls, and fails, and then we do it again, because some DMs don't follow the idea that if there are no consequences for failure, you don't roll. And I've seen it enough, that no, I'm not going to just say "well bad DMs do this, so it doesn't matter" because yes, it does matter. I've even had good DMs do this.I respect that you are tired of the argument. I'm tired of having to specify every single thing I'm doing, in every single room, because in one of them I might decide to pick up a cursed key. There are plenty of other ways to handle this. And yes, a quite of few of them ruin the "surprise" of the key being cursed. But, if the only challenge is that the player is unaware of the challenge, then it isn't actually challenging. It doesn't matter if they know the key is cursed if they have to interact with it to get what they want, and figuring out how to use a cursed key either without getting cursed, or dealing with the curse, is infinitely more interesting than grabbing it by accident and getting cursed.Maybe it is a better solution. But, that doesn't change the fact that if we are saying "by RAW, this is what happens" that saying "that's stupid and shouldn't be the rule" doesn't suddenly make it not the rules. And sometimes it can be just as effective to look at what the rules lead to, and respond to that, than just telling everyone they should change all the rules one by one.</blockquote>

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