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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8378126" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Then it was in poor taste to tell someone that the problem is they haven't researched enough as a joke.Never said it did. But if it is common DMing (and I have run into it quite a bit) then we need to acknowledge that it is common. And you criticizing people not putting challenges in so players don't waste their time, while ignoring that some of those DMs have had my exact expeirence of their time being wasted in this exact manner, seems like you are edging towards the fallacy of "well, if you were just a better DM, you wouldn't have any problems with this"But at what point is it "a build"? I ask because I've noticed many traps have a DC 13 to be noticed... and a level 2 rogue with expertise in Wisdom can easily get a Passive 16. So, by level 9 when that has risen to a 20 through no action or build being made by the player, when do you stop putting in traps just to validate their build? They've been able to spot the majority of traps, without a roll... for 7 levels. At what point do we decide to focus on something else?If that is the only good thing they have, they aren't worth playing anyways. And yeah, I get it, I really do. But there is a second issue here. If every single fight, heck if every third fight the cleric gets in has a bunch of undead charge them then turn to ash... it's boring. Mind-numbingly boring. I've played video games where after a certain point you get "random fights" that you cannot possibly lose... and it is the most boring thing in the world. Just mindlessly bashing the buttons until you win and can move on. And the big difference between this cleric ability and trapped or locked doors? I can send other things at the cleric, and only occassionally let them use that super-powerful ability in a way that makes them feel badass... but the door being locked and needing to roll for it is never going to be anything more exciting. And it happens far far far more often.Or waiting longer to ambush the back row is good. Nothing says that the ambush has to happen immediately. How do you ever get a counter-ambush if the roll to see if you notice the ambush is also the signal that they enemy attacks?Yeah, you aren't fully reading those rules. "Otherwise, the DM compares the Dexterity (Stealth) checks of anyone hiding with the passive Wisdom (Perception) score of each creature on the opposing side. Any character or monster that doesn't notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter."They left this vague on purpose. The people who don't notice are surprised at the start of the enocunter. Rolling Stealth does not mean that they encounter immediately starts. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It depends on the broader context.Then literally what is the point of asking? Does anyone ever say "No, I don't want to look closer, I'll ignore it."? This is just such a waste of time.</blockquote>

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