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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8380283" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Okay, but that isn't a challenge. You've failed the mission, how do you deal with failure, that isn't a challenge in and of itself.You seem to be conflating decision points with challenges, and I don't know why. Choosing Apple juice or Orange Juice is a decision point, but it isn't a challenge. We failed the mission, do we go home and face the consequences or try and at least get vengeance, there is no challenge in this decision, it is a matter of priorities and fears of punishment.I'm seperating them because we are trying to discuss the exploration pillar, but people keep conflating it with combat and ignoring the lack of exploration challenges. For example, strong winds mean you make ranged attacks at disadvantage. If you aren't making ranged attacks, strong winds provide zero challenge. Being in a thick fog means you can't see very far. If your only challenge in that lack of sight is that monsters can sneak up on you... then there isn't really a challenge here for you to engage with as exploration, it is a combat challenge. And this is the point I've run into time and time again. I've asked &quot;how do you provide a meaningful exploration challenge&quot; and most of the answers have been &quot;have them fight monsters&quot;. Which is not an exploration challenge, that is the same as saying that the only way to give an exploration challenge is to engage the combat pillar. Which should not be the exploration challenges we are relying on.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 8380283, member: 6801228"] Okay, but that isn't a challenge. You've failed the mission, how do you deal with failure, that isn't a challenge in and of itself. You seem to be conflating decision points with challenges, and I don't know why. Choosing Apple juice or Orange Juice is a decision point, but it isn't a challenge. We failed the mission, do we go home and face the consequences or try and at least get vengeance, there is no challenge in this decision, it is a matter of priorities and fears of punishment. I'm seperating them because we are trying to discuss the exploration pillar, but people keep conflating it with combat and ignoring the lack of exploration challenges. For example, strong winds mean you make ranged attacks at disadvantage. If you aren't making ranged attacks, strong winds provide zero challenge. Being in a thick fog means you can't see very far. If your only challenge in that lack of sight is that monsters can sneak up on you... then there isn't really a challenge here for you to engage with as exploration, it is a combat challenge. And this is the point I've run into time and time again. I've asked "how do you provide a meaningful exploration challenge" and most of the answers have been "have them fight monsters". Which is not an exploration challenge, that is the same as saying that the only way to give an exploration challenge is to engage the combat pillar. Which should not be the exploration challenges we are relying on. [/QUOTE]

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