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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8381828" data-attributes="member: 16814">And this is what confuses me.&nbsp; 5e provides a set of rules that interact with survival.&nbsp; These rules break down into two parts, those that describe the nature of the challenges and those that interact with those challenges.&nbsp; In 5e, the former is really just consumption of rations and water, with secondary inputs from the exhaustion, encumbrance,&nbsp; and rest cycles.&nbsp; The only options 5e provide officially is the variant encumbrance rules and the variant rest rules (gritty).&nbsp; On the latter, almost every single instance of a rule that interacts does so to reduce the effects of the first.&nbsp; Spells negate food/water.&nbsp; Backgrounds negate food/water.&nbsp; Spells remove exhaustion.&nbsp; Spells eventually negate need for travel at all.&nbsp; Magic items remove encumbrance issues.&nbsp; When taken in total, 5e presents survival challenges that are very, very quickly negated by the other rules of the system, most of which are not optional (magic items are).&nbsp; The defense for this is to literally state that you can just ignore the parts that cause problems and create new rules that aid in survival challenges.&nbsp; This is then lauded as a strength of the 5e system -- that you can ignore parts of it or come up with bits on your own and 5e tells you that you can do this!&nbsp; I guess if 5e didn't tell you to do the work on your own, that you couldn't do it, so 5e deserves full credit for you doing work on your own because it told you to do work on your own?&nbsp; Little fuzzy here.&nbsp; I'm just very confused how 5e gets defended and/or lauded for being a great system that supports survival challenges when the reality is that it tells you to fix it for yourself and then gives you stuff you have to fix!&nbsp; I'm even further confused by the arguments that then suggest or outright state that it's a personal failing for anyone to not be happy with this state of affairs -- that if you don't think 5e is doing a great job of telling you to do the work yourself that it's because you need hand-holding.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8381828, member: 16814"] And this is what confuses me. 5e provides a set of rules that interact with survival. These rules break down into two parts, those that describe the nature of the challenges and those that interact with those challenges. In 5e, the former is really just consumption of rations and water, with secondary inputs from the exhaustion, encumbrance, and rest cycles. The only options 5e provide officially is the variant encumbrance rules and the variant rest rules (gritty). On the latter, almost every single instance of a rule that interacts does so to reduce the effects of the first. Spells negate food/water. Backgrounds negate food/water. Spells remove exhaustion. Spells eventually negate need for travel at all. Magic items remove encumbrance issues. When taken in total, 5e presents survival challenges that are very, very quickly negated by the other rules of the system, most of which are not optional (magic items are). The defense for this is to literally state that you can just ignore the parts that cause problems and create new rules that aid in survival challenges. This is then lauded as a strength of the 5e system -- that you can ignore parts of it or come up with bits on your own and 5e tells you that you can do this! I guess if 5e didn't tell you to do the work on your own, that you couldn't do it, so 5e deserves full credit for you doing work on your own because it told you to do work on your own? Little fuzzy here. I'm just very confused how 5e gets defended and/or lauded for being a great system that supports survival challenges when the reality is that it tells you to fix it for yourself and then gives you stuff you have to fix! I'm even further confused by the arguments that then suggest or outright state that it's a personal failing for anyone to not be happy with this state of affairs -- that if you don't think 5e is doing a great job of telling you to do the work yourself that it's because you need hand-holding. [/QUOTE]

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