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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8382044" data-attributes="member: 16814">I can see how you'd want to dismiss this as irrelevant, because it goes directly to who has to do the work to make the game work.  You'd rather argue 5e requires no work, being fully functional as is, while ignoring the effort put in by the GM to fix it.  The enabling argument here is that 5e anticipated that GMs would have to do work and lampshaded it, so it's fine now.No such claim made.  Claim was made the 5e doesn't support survival because it also has rules that thwart it's other rules, and does so intentionally.  That any support is enabled by requiring the GM to change the system to support it.  Ergo, 5e doesn't support survival games because it is GM alterations to 5e that support it.Arguably, it offers more support, because you just have to make stuff up, you don't have to remove things already in the system.  But, as I note, that's arguable.Here's where I strongly disagree with you.  It takes you and me little effort because we have 1) long experience with RPGs, 2) this enables our ability to quickly identify parts of the system that are actively fighting each other, and 3) our experience allows us to quickly make some changes that satisfy the need while avoiding common pitfalls in houserules (ie, failure to address core issues and instead targeting superficial ones).  These are practically no effort at all, but instead long practice and experience that do not generalize.  What you can do while relying on your experience is not something someone else does -- they have to first learn there's an issue, which takes time and dealing with the pain points.  They then have to get over the idea of changing the rules, something that isn't universally accepted as immediately okay.  Then they have to make the changes and playtest them to see how they balance out, possibly having to reiterate.  That I can skip all of that isn't because it's super easy, but because I've done this so many times that my experience allows me to fix it quickly and with little effort.  This then doesn't accrue to 5e as a feature, though, because that's my work and experience.  5e has no help at all for a neophyte GM to even recognize the problem until it shows up in play, much less any suggestions on how it might be fixed or even if it should be.You have to evaluate RPGs from outside your experience and comfort with them -- to look at them as is and not with your years or decades of experience or your personality.  5e does have rules that support survival, yes, but then it also has rules that effectively turn those first rules off.  This is what the system is -- however you deal with it isn't the system, it's you.  Let's stop confusing the two things.</blockquote>

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