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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8384741" data-attributes="member: 16814">Sure, sure.Well, that didn't last long, as here we are pivoting and dismissing by putting me in a neatly labelled box.  Because this isn't true.  What I showed was that 5e has a lot of interlocking rules for survival that take up page count and appear to be serious rules that require attention and effort.  But, immediately, they negate that.  I mean, lots of people have pointed out how the spells do it so quickly and better than can be done in the system, but even at 1st level an Outlander Ranger disables most of the rules that are presented.  This isn't a matter of not liking abilities that mitigate or even eliminate survival but rather that the rule system is incoherent -- it provides rules as if this is a serious point of decision for the characters and then also provides rules that say "ignore those other rules entirely."  There's a pretty big difference.I've mentioned other games that I think do well by exploration with very few rules and those feature options that bypass or mitigate exploration challenges, they just do so as serious build choice options and they do it in very specific ways that make sense, not just "I can cast spells so mundane things are beneath me."Well, I think you're vastly overestimating your ability to survive, and certainly overstating exactly how much of your time would be pinned to survival rather than anything else.  And that's assuming you have some nice modern accessories to aid you (like a reliable hatchet or a sleeping bag and tarp).  But, I actually agree -- I don't want to bother with mundane survival, I want fantastic survival.  However, the 5e rules give us mundane survival and then turn it off quickly, and they give us nothing at all about fantastic survival.  I certainly don't expect level 20 parties to starve in the woods, but I would expect them to have difficulty in the domain of the Dark God of the Wood, which could be an extraplanar pocket that's entirely shaped by a hostile nature god.  And the only thing 5e provides for this kind of things is mundane survival, tools for obviating mundane survival that also tend to act to obviate fantastic survival (I mean, create food and water and tiny hut are great in this situation, obviating any need to deal with the plane's survival problems), and "You're on your own here, GMs!"You've tried to put me in a box that you can easily close by saying I don't want rules that bypass mundane survival challenges and then providing rather banal examples as if they're my positions while telling me they're silly.  I mean, it's not far from what I expected.  It's also a pretty bad take.</blockquote>

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