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<blockquote data-quote="moritheil" data-source="post: 4199382" data-attributes="member: 30610">Hmm, I'm not sure you should assume the ability to perform magical spells is the fundamental and essential part of the interaction of heroes (even magical heroes) with magic in myth.&nbsp; My statement about arcane knowledge is not that literacy = sorcery, but rather that learning is powerful in that it gives a character the ability to move legitimately in the magical world, with or without personal magical ability.&nbsp; This is more the case in stories involving spirits that use trickery, where magic is not obvious (even to the spirits themselves.)&nbsp; Learning has a transcendental quality.Sometimes what is most important is knowledge, and sometimes the line between knowledge and magic is not even drawn clearly.&nbsp; Why is Gandalf powerful and impressive?&nbsp; Because he's able to shoot lightning from his fingertips?&nbsp; No, it's because he knows things no mortal man knows.&nbsp; Yes, he's able to influence the world through supernatural means, but that's not seen as his essential role in the story.&nbsp; He doesn't serve as a walking artillery piece that cuts people down in a hail of fireballs and magic missiles; he tells people what is likely to happen and what can and can't happen.&nbsp; And in the movie, he enters close combat an awful lot - there is no reason why he can't be seen as an elderly version of the warrior/mage archetype, taking an advisory role (because he's not to take the ring . . . not because he's actually elderly, of course.&nbsp; He's not human.&nbsp; But if you were to extrapolate the fighter/mage archetype into an elderly version, it's not hard to see the result as an advisor who acts a little like Gandalf.)Regarding Asian myths, it might be a little hard to classify some of the more epic heroes in strict DnD terms.&nbsp; In the Mahabarata, two opposing warriors both invoke the same spiritual weapon at each other, and the gods advise them to recant, because the conflict could destroy the world.&nbsp; Flavor-wise, the warriors were an archer and (I think) a swordsman - not really spellcasters - but there is a long tradition in Indian myth that heroes can call upon powerful supernatural forces as a reflection of their individual merit.&nbsp; Is that best modeled as warrior mages clashing?&nbsp; Perhaps.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="moritheil, post: 4199382, member: 30610"] Hmm, I'm not sure you should assume the ability to perform magical spells is the fundamental and essential part of the interaction of heroes (even magical heroes) with magic in myth. My statement about arcane knowledge is not that literacy = sorcery, but rather that learning is powerful in that it gives a character the ability to move legitimately in the magical world, with or without personal magical ability. This is more the case in stories involving spirits that use trickery, where magic is not obvious (even to the spirits themselves.) Learning has a transcendental quality. Sometimes what is most important is knowledge, and sometimes the line between knowledge and magic is not even drawn clearly. Why is Gandalf powerful and impressive? Because he's able to shoot lightning from his fingertips? No, it's because he knows things no mortal man knows. Yes, he's able to influence the world through supernatural means, but that's not seen as his essential role in the story. He doesn't serve as a walking artillery piece that cuts people down in a hail of fireballs and magic missiles; he tells people what is likely to happen and what can and can't happen. And in the movie, he enters close combat an awful lot - there is no reason why he can't be seen as an elderly version of the warrior/mage archetype, taking an advisory role (because he's not to take the ring . . . not because he's actually elderly, of course. He's not human. But if you were to extrapolate the fighter/mage archetype into an elderly version, it's not hard to see the result as an advisor who acts a little like Gandalf.) Regarding Asian myths, it might be a little hard to classify some of the more epic heroes in strict DnD terms. In the Mahabarata, two opposing warriors both invoke the same spiritual weapon at each other, and the gods advise them to recant, because the conflict could destroy the world. Flavor-wise, the warriors were an archer and (I think) a swordsman - not really spellcasters - but there is a long tradition in Indian myth that heroes can call upon powerful supernatural forces as a reflection of their individual merit. Is that best modeled as warrior mages clashing? Perhaps. [/QUOTE]

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