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Why FR Is "Hated"
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<blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 7132366" data-attributes="member: 5100"><p>1) In terms of "vanilla" settings, I actually dislike Mystara more. That's kinda of it's own topic, but I'll throw it out there. I've never run a Realms game, but I played in the Realms in 1E, 2E, and 3.xE. In 1E, it wasn't a huge deal, but the games I played in 2E and 3E became increasingly painful to try to deal with the... oddness of the Realms flavor, at least as used by the groups in which I played (mostly PBEM games). If the Realms was "first among equals" or even just "premiere but not sole", I'd be able to suck it up and play at a table using the Realms, even if it wasn't my first choice.</p><p></p><p>Given the near-rebuild of the Realms in 5E and the fact that I think the Gygaxian flair is too tightly woven into Greyhawk for anyone else to do it justice, I could probably even be talked into using the Realms for "I don't want to think" defaults in 5E if I didn't find it so objectionable to have any setting that tightly tied to the D&D brand. I'd still like to see formal support for Eberron, in 5E, and wouldn't say "no" to a bit more from Ravenloft or Nentir Vale. Really, though, I'd be pretty much as happy with a new setting on the shelf beside the Realms as with an old one.</p><p></p><p>2) Having tried to convert some of the adventures from their default setting, I'll say that it's a mixed bag. PotA and LMoP weren't too bad. There were some subtle issues around geography with PotA, because it's actually a fairly large area, but the story was no big deal. Tyranny of Dragons, on the other hand, was practically impossible. I got about half-way through it and realized that I'd pretty much broken it down to an outline from which I'd have to rebuild almost the whole thing. Screw that! I've got enough old modules that I never used that would get me there. Also, I've never had a problem with an adventure outline. That's something I can do in my head. It's the actual nuts and bolts that save me time.</p><p></p><p>I'm actually OK with the idea that some of the adventures would be hardwired into the Realms. It's a popular setting and sells books. Can we just be clear about which ones I can easily convert and which ones will be a headache? I'm not spending $50 on another book that I can't use. So, I almost picked up OotA because I like demons as adversaries and figured it'd be fun to use as a Khyber run, even if I subbed in something for all the drow or just put it on Xen'drik. But, it started to sound like it wouldn't actually be that easy. Then SKT sounded intriguing -- my first AD&D romp was <u>Against the Giants</u>. But, there was some buzz about it being a follow-up to ToD, so I gave it a pass. Maybe I was right, maybe not, but I didn't like the guess work around the difficulty of porting the adventures.</p><p></p><p>So, that brings us to CoS, VGtM, TFtYP, and XGtE. I actually think this is where I started to get seriously grumpy. Yes, I know the intrusions in these books are mostly inconsequential. CoS has what, 2 pages on the Five Factions? That's just padding to get it to a standard binding. But... it's also totally unnecessary. Why include <u>anything</u> about the Realms (or Greyhawk, et al) in a Ravenloft adventure? Saying "It's for AL" is the wrong answer because this is a general circulation book, not an AL product. It's also dismissive. Why do the other three products all have names that come from the Realms? There are plenty of names from other settings that could have been used, just as a nod. It was such a small thing, yet it speaks so loudly: D&D is the Realms and the Realms is D&D. I'm actually unclear whether VGtM is purely setting neutral or if it has some Realms lore -- I've heard both. I assume that TftYP is unconverted and that XGtE will be about as Realms-specific as the UA material has been (which is to say, pretty generic).</p><p></p><p>Here's what would "make it all better" in my eyes: At a minimum, make it clear which adventures are pretty hardwired to the Realms and which ones are just using some maps -- slap a logo on it, put "A Forgotten Realms story" in the copy text, or whatever. Put out another "general purpose" book that's named for someone/something from somewhere else. Make a 5E <u>Tome of Magic</u> called <u>Dalamar's Guide to Magic</u>. Make the 5E <u>Magic Item Compendium</u> named <u>The Cannith Guide to Magical Treasures</u>.</p><p></p><p>Ideally, they'll actually utilize another campaign setting (new or gently used) for an adventure or maybe a SCAG-type guide. Something like the <em>Khorvaire Adventurer's Guide</em> and then open up Eberron on DM's Guild and see what happens.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercule, post: 7132366, member: 5100"] 1) In terms of "vanilla" settings, I actually dislike Mystara more. That's kinda of it's own topic, but I'll throw it out there. I've never run a Realms game, but I played in the Realms in 1E, 2E, and 3.xE. In 1E, it wasn't a huge deal, but the games I played in 2E and 3E became increasingly painful to try to deal with the... oddness of the Realms flavor, at least as used by the groups in which I played (mostly PBEM games). If the Realms was "first among equals" or even just "premiere but not sole", I'd be able to suck it up and play at a table using the Realms, even if it wasn't my first choice. Given the near-rebuild of the Realms in 5E and the fact that I think the Gygaxian flair is too tightly woven into Greyhawk for anyone else to do it justice, I could probably even be talked into using the Realms for "I don't want to think" defaults in 5E if I didn't find it so objectionable to have any setting that tightly tied to the D&D brand. I'd still like to see formal support for Eberron, in 5E, and wouldn't say "no" to a bit more from Ravenloft or Nentir Vale. Really, though, I'd be pretty much as happy with a new setting on the shelf beside the Realms as with an old one. 2) Having tried to convert some of the adventures from their default setting, I'll say that it's a mixed bag. PotA and LMoP weren't too bad. There were some subtle issues around geography with PotA, because it's actually a fairly large area, but the story was no big deal. Tyranny of Dragons, on the other hand, was practically impossible. I got about half-way through it and realized that I'd pretty much broken it down to an outline from which I'd have to rebuild almost the whole thing. Screw that! I've got enough old modules that I never used that would get me there. Also, I've never had a problem with an adventure outline. That's something I can do in my head. It's the actual nuts and bolts that save me time. I'm actually OK with the idea that some of the adventures would be hardwired into the Realms. It's a popular setting and sells books. Can we just be clear about which ones I can easily convert and which ones will be a headache? I'm not spending $50 on another book that I can't use. So, I almost picked up OotA because I like demons as adversaries and figured it'd be fun to use as a Khyber run, even if I subbed in something for all the drow or just put it on Xen'drik. But, it started to sound like it wouldn't actually be that easy. Then SKT sounded intriguing -- my first AD&D romp was [U]Against the Giants[/U]. But, there was some buzz about it being a follow-up to ToD, so I gave it a pass. Maybe I was right, maybe not, but I didn't like the guess work around the difficulty of porting the adventures. So, that brings us to CoS, VGtM, TFtYP, and XGtE. I actually think this is where I started to get seriously grumpy. Yes, I know the intrusions in these books are mostly inconsequential. CoS has what, 2 pages on the Five Factions? That's just padding to get it to a standard binding. But... it's also totally unnecessary. Why include [U]anything[/U] about the Realms (or Greyhawk, et al) in a Ravenloft adventure? Saying "It's for AL" is the wrong answer because this is a general circulation book, not an AL product. It's also dismissive. Why do the other three products all have names that come from the Realms? There are plenty of names from other settings that could have been used, just as a nod. It was such a small thing, yet it speaks so loudly: D&D is the Realms and the Realms is D&D. I'm actually unclear whether VGtM is purely setting neutral or if it has some Realms lore -- I've heard both. I assume that TftYP is unconverted and that XGtE will be about as Realms-specific as the UA material has been (which is to say, pretty generic). Here's what would "make it all better" in my eyes: At a minimum, make it clear which adventures are pretty hardwired to the Realms and which ones are just using some maps -- slap a logo on it, put "A Forgotten Realms story" in the copy text, or whatever. Put out another "general purpose" book that's named for someone/something from somewhere else. Make a 5E [U]Tome of Magic[/U] called [U]Dalamar's Guide to Magic[/U]. Make the 5E [U]Magic Item Compendium[/U] named [U]The Cannith Guide to Magical Treasures[/U]. Ideally, they'll actually utilize another campaign setting (new or gently used) for an adventure or maybe a SCAG-type guide. Something like the [I]Khorvaire Adventurer's Guide[/I] and then open up Eberron on DM's Guild and see what happens. [/QUOTE]
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