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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7138063" data-attributes="member: 22779">Sorry, I'm not sure here.&nbsp; Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?&nbsp; I did point out that in AD&amp;D, it was only humans, demo-humans and humanoids that got class levels until the release of Ravenloft which is 1983.&nbsp; And, even then, it's not exactly a far jump from humanoid to vampire.&nbsp; To be fair, I suppose, Liches obviously had class levels from the get go.&nbsp; But, no, the idea of NPC's and PC's sharing the same rules was very much a 3e addition to the game and, really, only applies to 3e.&nbsp; It's not like there's a Commoner class in any other edition of the game.&nbsp; Orcs didn't have 1 HD because they were 1st level Warriors, they had 1 HD because they were orcs.&nbsp; I mean, funnily enough, in 3e, kobolds are exactly the same size as orcs, hit dice wise.&nbsp; Orcs have 5 hp as opposed to a kobold's 4, simply because of a Con bonus.&nbsp; In AD&amp;D, the largest of kobolds was just as big as an average orc, hit point wise, and could never equal a larger (5hp+) orc.The only difference, really, between a goblin and an orc in 3e is that an orc has a higher strength.&nbsp; Statblock wise, they're virtually identical.&nbsp; This wasn't true in earlier editions.&nbsp; Kobolds, goblins and orc all used different hit dice, and, because goblins and kobolds were less than 1 full hit die, fighter types got massive bonus attacks (1/level/round) against them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7138063, member: 22779"] Sorry, I'm not sure here. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? I did point out that in AD&D, it was only humans, demo-humans and humanoids that got class levels until the release of Ravenloft which is 1983. And, even then, it's not exactly a far jump from humanoid to vampire. To be fair, I suppose, Liches obviously had class levels from the get go. But, no, the idea of NPC's and PC's sharing the same rules was very much a 3e addition to the game and, really, only applies to 3e. It's not like there's a Commoner class in any other edition of the game. Orcs didn't have 1 HD because they were 1st level Warriors, they had 1 HD because they were orcs. I mean, funnily enough, in 3e, kobolds are exactly the same size as orcs, hit dice wise. Orcs have 5 hp as opposed to a kobold's 4, simply because of a Con bonus. In AD&D, the largest of kobolds was just as big as an average orc, hit point wise, and could never equal a larger (5hp+) orc. The only difference, really, between a goblin and an orc in 3e is that an orc has a higher strength. Statblock wise, they're virtually identical. This wasn't true in earlier editions. Kobolds, goblins and orc all used different hit dice, and, because goblins and kobolds were less than 1 full hit die, fighter types got massive bonus attacks (1/level/round) against them. [/QUOTE]

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