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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7147624" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>It kind of works for Bane, tyranny is his whole schtick so a strict authoritarian government style church works. </p><p></p><p>But, as I understand it, who would ever worship Cyric or Bhaal?</p><p></p><p>Looking at the Wiki it says Cyric has “ an immense following” and that “Cyric's church was pledged to spread strife and work murder everywhere in order to make folk believe in and fear the Dark Sun.” But, look at this from a perspective of society and it makes no sense. For these two things to be true there has to be a massive amount of people in Faerun who want to cause chaos for the sake of chaos and murder, while following the god of lies… and formed into a cohesive unit. A very similar thing follows for Bhaal, whose only dogma seems to be “Kill someone every ten days, and if you can’t you have to kill enough people to catch up to your quota” how many people would seriously be murder-hungry enough to follow through on that kind of religion. “Our only tenant is to kill more people, by the way, I’m going to start killing you guys to meet my quota”</p><p></p><p>Now, let us say that it possible (which I find a little hard to swallow, but maybe the realms is that terrible of a place) what purpose does Cyric serve that is not served by Graz’zt, Yeenoghu or Asmodeus? Graz’zt is all about self-indulgence and doing what you want, if you find chaos to be amusing, sow chaos and indulge your whims. Yeenoghu is the Beast of Slaughter, murdering people for the sake of murdering them is what he is all about. Asmodeus is someone who twists words to his advantage and is a deal maker, and thus can be seen as a more sane version of Cyric in many ways. </p><p></p><p>Why do we have these gods that only madmen would worship, when we already have demon lords and archdevils that have the same philosophies and these same madmen would worship them? What does Bhaal offer to his followers that Yeenoghu or Baphomet can’t? </p><p></p><p>One of my favorite homebrews I’ve come across recently was the Pantheon work done by LudicSavant on GiTPG. He is working with the Greyhawk pantheon, but he takes every deity and looks at how to write their belief system in a way that a sane person could reasonably be expected to fellow the string of logic. </p><p></p><p>So for example, Nerull the God of Death in his version is the being that separated life and death into two separate things, and then once he realized that life meant pain came into existence began working to reverse what he did. The idea that life is pain and moving beyond life is the only way to escape pain makes sense, we see this philosophy crop up in the real world. He doesn’t encourage his followers to kill, people are allowed to choose when their pain should end, but if they must kill they should do so as swiftly and painlessly as possible. I’ll link it, and from anyone of his threads you can find the others. It really is some brilliant stuff. <a href="http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?443831-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Nerull" target="_blank">http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?443831-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Nerull</a> and he does the same with Hextor (Bane’s crazier cousin in Greyhawk), Erythunul, Lolth, ect. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, but in this world religious conflict generally translates into mass murder and smear campaigns.</p><p></p><p>Do the followers of Helm go out and destroy the shrines built to Sune? Do Waukeen’s followers despise and look down upon the followers of Mystra? </p><p></p><p>I don’t know as much about the Realms as some, but that all sounds absurd to me. At worst you are looking at something more similar to the fighting between those who like Coffee and the people who drink Tea. Sure, each one thinks the others choice is wrong, and maybe a little gross or snooty, and they’ll try to get their friends to convert over, but at the end of the day that’s about it. Friendly competition sure, but nothing that could be considered a “conflict” or “war” between the two religions. </p><p></p><p></p><p>I don’t want this to devolve too far, it’s just I find this set up of “The Good gods vs the Evil Gods vs The Demons vs The Devils” a little too convoluted. The good guys almost never fight each other, because it doesn’t make sense for them to, and if you have Demon Lords and Archdevils that can almost challenge the gods, why do you need Evil gods?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 7147624, member: 6801228"] It kind of works for Bane, tyranny is his whole schtick so a strict authoritarian government style church works. But, as I understand it, who would ever worship Cyric or Bhaal? Looking at the Wiki it says Cyric has “ an immense following” and that “Cyric's church was pledged to spread strife and work murder everywhere in order to make folk believe in and fear the Dark Sun.” But, look at this from a perspective of society and it makes no sense. For these two things to be true there has to be a massive amount of people in Faerun who want to cause chaos for the sake of chaos and murder, while following the god of lies… and formed into a cohesive unit. A very similar thing follows for Bhaal, whose only dogma seems to be “Kill someone every ten days, and if you can’t you have to kill enough people to catch up to your quota” how many people would seriously be murder-hungry enough to follow through on that kind of religion. “Our only tenant is to kill more people, by the way, I’m going to start killing you guys to meet my quota” Now, let us say that it possible (which I find a little hard to swallow, but maybe the realms is that terrible of a place) what purpose does Cyric serve that is not served by Graz’zt, Yeenoghu or Asmodeus? Graz’zt is all about self-indulgence and doing what you want, if you find chaos to be amusing, sow chaos and indulge your whims. Yeenoghu is the Beast of Slaughter, murdering people for the sake of murdering them is what he is all about. Asmodeus is someone who twists words to his advantage and is a deal maker, and thus can be seen as a more sane version of Cyric in many ways. Why do we have these gods that only madmen would worship, when we already have demon lords and archdevils that have the same philosophies and these same madmen would worship them? What does Bhaal offer to his followers that Yeenoghu or Baphomet can’t? One of my favorite homebrews I’ve come across recently was the Pantheon work done by LudicSavant on GiTPG. He is working with the Greyhawk pantheon, but he takes every deity and looks at how to write their belief system in a way that a sane person could reasonably be expected to fellow the string of logic. So for example, Nerull the God of Death in his version is the being that separated life and death into two separate things, and then once he realized that life meant pain came into existence began working to reverse what he did. The idea that life is pain and moving beyond life is the only way to escape pain makes sense, we see this philosophy crop up in the real world. He doesn’t encourage his followers to kill, people are allowed to choose when their pain should end, but if they must kill they should do so as swiftly and painlessly as possible. I’ll link it, and from anyone of his threads you can find the others. It really is some brilliant stuff. [url]http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?443831-My-pantheon-s-take-on-Nerull[/url] and he does the same with Hextor (Bane’s crazier cousin in Greyhawk), Erythunul, Lolth, ect. Yeah, but in this world religious conflict generally translates into mass murder and smear campaigns. Do the followers of Helm go out and destroy the shrines built to Sune? Do Waukeen’s followers despise and look down upon the followers of Mystra? I don’t know as much about the Realms as some, but that all sounds absurd to me. At worst you are looking at something more similar to the fighting between those who like Coffee and the people who drink Tea. Sure, each one thinks the others choice is wrong, and maybe a little gross or snooty, and they’ll try to get their friends to convert over, but at the end of the day that’s about it. Friendly competition sure, but nothing that could be considered a “conflict” or “war” between the two religions. I don’t want this to devolve too far, it’s just I find this set up of “The Good gods vs the Evil Gods vs The Demons vs The Devils” a little too convoluted. The good guys almost never fight each other, because it doesn’t make sense for them to, and if you have Demon Lords and Archdevils that can almost challenge the gods, why do you need Evil gods? [/QUOTE]
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