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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7148737" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>If you don't know your Realmslore - Cyric (the human) killed Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul during the Time of Troubles and became a god taking their portfolios (and churches). Bane's son was a demigod trying to take back some of Bane's old followers, but turned out to be a shell to allow Bane to be reborn. Or something like that. So as soon as he came back, the Banites that converted back (and those that followed his son instead of Cyric) immediately started a crusade against Cyric's followers.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, I'm not a fan of all the monstrous humanoids (and a whole host of other creatures) having their own gods to start with. One of the things that I consistently find aggravating is the "humanization" of every race they create. Why aren't the exotic races more...exotic?</p><p></p><p>That being said, Gruumsh could also be subservient to Bane, etc. Like I said, though, I tend not to get that involved in what happens in the planes themselves. The "truth" isn't really relevant, since what people believe is very different. Really, what it comes down to is I'm not afraid to make changes in my pantheons to better suit what makes sense to me. </p><p></p><p>One of the things that I've looked at is that the orcs and goblin kin, are <em>truly</em> warlike/evil. That <em>heaven</em> to them is being part of the eternal war in their planes, and that an orc that isn't sadistic and strong enough is reborn on Faerun to "learn" again. So when a band of adventurers comes along an "saves" an orc, and brings them to the civilized world they are actually condemning them to orcish hell because they can't be reborn in the eternal war. </p><p></p><p>Another concept is that the orcs and goblin kin are more like a virus or bacteria, that they are "foreign" to the land (in the Realms they are from a different plane), have no natural place within the world, and any good that is seen in them is a combination of humans projecting their own feelings on them, or because they are just intelligent enough to be trained. They are literally worse than the Nazis, by their very natures.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not the demon lords, just demons in general. Also, I forgot that Asmodeus and Tiamat are gods in the realms, along with Lolth. There's not really anything to say that other demon lords couldn't be.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Nothing, actually. I've reworked a number of classes, and removed (and sometimes replaced) some of the more annoying (to me) abilities. Most of the time it has to do with what makes sense in world building. If every cleric on the planet has a x% chance of having their god respond directly to them, it completely changes the nature of the world. I'm not as concerned about 10th level + abilities because of my campaigns because of much slower advancement. In 35+ years I can't honestly remember any PC, some of which were in play for 6+ years of weekly sessions, getting to 10th level. My campaigns are tough, and advancement very slow, much more inline with AD&D (especially if you played AD&D without awarding XP for treasure). AD&D leveling was different for each class. So with 355,000 XP (which is 20th level in 5e or 3,156 ogres in 5e, 6,762 ogres in 1e) you would be an:</p><p></p><p>8th level monk</p><p>9th level cleric, fighter, paladin</p><p>10th level ranger, magic user, illusionist, assassin (25,000 XP short of an 11th level magic user)</p><p>11th level thief</p><p>12th level druid</p><p></p><p>20th level 5e character</p><p></p><p>Having said that, my version of turning undead (and fiends) probably makes up for it:</p><p></p><p><strong>Divine Might: Turn the Unholy</strong></p><p>In the movies, holding back hordes of undead or powerful fiends is a test of will and channeling the might of your Deity.</p><p>This ability does not use the Channel Divinity ability, and can be used at any time.</p><p>Starting at 2nd level, as an Action, you can attempt to channel the divine power of your deity to protect against undead and fiends. You present your holy symbol and create a ward against undead and fiends. The creatures must make a Wisdom saving throw, with a DC equal to your spell save DC. If the creature is frightened if it fails its saving throw by more than 5, otherwise if it fails it is pushed outside of the sphere of protection and can continue to try to breach the barrier, or may choose to attack other targets outside of the barrier.</p><p>If the creature continues to try to breach the barrier, the creature can use its action to make an additional saving throw to end the effect for it and break through the barrier. Once a creature makes its saving throw, it cannot be affected by that cleric's turning or destruction ability for 24 hours.</p><p></p><p>So you can use it as much as you want, but most of the time it's just going to delay the inevitable. Right now the destroy undead ability uses the same chart as the PHB, but I think I'm going to change it so the barrier just causes damage to the undead that touch it. I might rework both so it drives the undead to <em>try</em> to get through the barrier, that is, they make the cleric their focus, so when you can destroy them, they'll be taking damage on a consistent basis.</p><p></p><p>I might also just work all of that into the turning undead, and the damage just increases with level.</p><p></p><p>Oh, and I allow any devout individual with a holy symbol to attempt the same thing, although the save DC is probably just a straight 8 + whatever modifier I think is appropriate under the circumstances. So if the cleric has fallen, the rogue can pick up their holy symbol and try to drive away the undead while they save the cleric's body and escape through the door.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 7148737, member: 6778044"] If you don't know your Realmslore - Cyric (the human) killed Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul during the Time of Troubles and became a god taking their portfolios (and churches). Bane's son was a demigod trying to take back some of Bane's old followers, but turned out to be a shell to allow Bane to be reborn. Or something like that. So as soon as he came back, the Banites that converted back (and those that followed his son instead of Cyric) immediately started a crusade against Cyric's followers. Actually, I'm not a fan of all the monstrous humanoids (and a whole host of other creatures) having their own gods to start with. One of the things that I consistently find aggravating is the "humanization" of every race they create. Why aren't the exotic races more...exotic? That being said, Gruumsh could also be subservient to Bane, etc. Like I said, though, I tend not to get that involved in what happens in the planes themselves. The "truth" isn't really relevant, since what people believe is very different. Really, what it comes down to is I'm not afraid to make changes in my pantheons to better suit what makes sense to me. One of the things that I've looked at is that the orcs and goblin kin, are [I]truly[/I] warlike/evil. That [I]heaven[/I] to them is being part of the eternal war in their planes, and that an orc that isn't sadistic and strong enough is reborn on Faerun to "learn" again. So when a band of adventurers comes along an "saves" an orc, and brings them to the civilized world they are actually condemning them to orcish hell because they can't be reborn in the eternal war. Another concept is that the orcs and goblin kin are more like a virus or bacteria, that they are "foreign" to the land (in the Realms they are from a different plane), have no natural place within the world, and any good that is seen in them is a combination of humans projecting their own feelings on them, or because they are just intelligent enough to be trained. They are literally worse than the Nazis, by their very natures. Not the demon lords, just demons in general. Also, I forgot that Asmodeus and Tiamat are gods in the realms, along with Lolth. There's not really anything to say that other demon lords couldn't be. Nothing, actually. I've reworked a number of classes, and removed (and sometimes replaced) some of the more annoying (to me) abilities. Most of the time it has to do with what makes sense in world building. If every cleric on the planet has a x% chance of having their god respond directly to them, it completely changes the nature of the world. I'm not as concerned about 10th level + abilities because of my campaigns because of much slower advancement. In 35+ years I can't honestly remember any PC, some of which were in play for 6+ years of weekly sessions, getting to 10th level. My campaigns are tough, and advancement very slow, much more inline with AD&D (especially if you played AD&D without awarding XP for treasure). AD&D leveling was different for each class. So with 355,000 XP (which is 20th level in 5e or 3,156 ogres in 5e, 6,762 ogres in 1e) you would be an: 8th level monk 9th level cleric, fighter, paladin 10th level ranger, magic user, illusionist, assassin (25,000 XP short of an 11th level magic user) 11th level thief 12th level druid 20th level 5e character Having said that, my version of turning undead (and fiends) probably makes up for it: [B]Divine Might: Turn the Unholy[/B] In the movies, holding back hordes of undead or powerful fiends is a test of will and channeling the might of your Deity. This ability does not use the Channel Divinity ability, and can be used at any time. Starting at 2nd level, as an Action, you can attempt to channel the divine power of your deity to protect against undead and fiends. You present your holy symbol and create a ward against undead and fiends. The creatures must make a Wisdom saving throw, with a DC equal to your spell save DC. If the creature is frightened if it fails its saving throw by more than 5, otherwise if it fails it is pushed outside of the sphere of protection and can continue to try to breach the barrier, or may choose to attack other targets outside of the barrier. If the creature continues to try to breach the barrier, the creature can use its action to make an additional saving throw to end the effect for it and break through the barrier. Once a creature makes its saving throw, it cannot be affected by that cleric's turning or destruction ability for 24 hours. So you can use it as much as you want, but most of the time it's just going to delay the inevitable. Right now the destroy undead ability uses the same chart as the PHB, but I think I'm going to change it so the barrier just causes damage to the undead that touch it. I might rework both so it drives the undead to [I]try[/I] to get through the barrier, that is, they make the cleric their focus, so when you can destroy them, they'll be taking damage on a consistent basis. I might also just work all of that into the turning undead, and the damage just increases with level. Oh, and I allow any devout individual with a holy symbol to attempt the same thing, although the save DC is probably just a straight 8 + whatever modifier I think is appropriate under the circumstances. So if the cleric has fallen, the rogue can pick up their holy symbol and try to drive away the undead while they save the cleric's body and escape through the door. [/QUOTE]
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