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<blockquote data-quote="AaronOfBarbaria" data-source="post: 6994672" data-attributes="member: 6701872">This is a very odd thread in which to find evidence that one of my favorite messages to spread - that if you want your players to feel challenged in combat, the answer is to back off the difficulty until they start playing less potent characters by choice, because trying to keep cranking things higher and higher flat-out never ends satisfactorily - is getting around.It's just too bad that the folks that want the feeling of each combat being a life-or-death-balanced-on-the-edge-of-a-blade also seem to be the most incapable of realizing they are locked into a cycle - the DM cranks up the challenge, the players optimize their characters because they'll end up dead if they don't, the DM thinks things are too easy and cranks up the challenge again, or worse starts complaining things like &quot;X is overpowered&quot; because at its peak potential of power it stood out while beating the super-hard encounters, or &quot;high-level saves are busted because no one can pass nonproficient saves&quot; which is only true because they have forced their players into lop-sided stat arrays with numerous dump stats and stick them up against nothing but high-CR monsters....if I were motivated, I could probably write a book about this... not that anyone that would actually benefit from it would read it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AaronOfBarbaria, post: 6994672, member: 6701872"] This is a very odd thread in which to find evidence that one of my favorite messages to spread - that if you want your players to feel challenged in combat, the answer is to back off the difficulty until they start playing less potent characters by choice, because trying to keep cranking things higher and higher flat-out never ends satisfactorily - is getting around. It's just too bad that the folks that want the feeling of each combat being a life-or-death-balanced-on-the-edge-of-a-blade also seem to be the most incapable of realizing they are locked into a cycle - the DM cranks up the challenge, the players optimize their characters because they'll end up dead if they don't, the DM thinks things are too easy and cranks up the challenge again, or worse starts complaining things like "X is overpowered" because at its peak potential of power it stood out while beating the super-hard encounters, or "high-level saves are busted because no one can pass nonproficient saves" which is only true because they have forced their players into lop-sided stat arrays with numerous dump stats and stick them up against nothing but high-CR monsters. ...if I were motivated, I could probably write a book about this... not that anyone that would actually benefit from it would read it. [/QUOTE]

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