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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7100228" data-attributes="member: 6716779">On these forusm people seem to have got it into their heads that Green Flame Blade is actually good. Personally I think it is a trap in most cases and you are doing it wrong.  At the most basic level GFB lets you deal extra damage and it looks tempting for classes like the Rogue. You spend your action and get an ability score to damage with extra dice to damage at higher levels. You might also get some splash damage on adjacent targets perhaps an extra 1 or 2s8 in most cases perhaps more if you are playing in a high level game.  So who benefits the most from GFB (in theory?). 1. Classes with only 1 attack.2. Gish based classes that get cantrips (Eldritch Knight/Arcane trickster)3. Races that get a bonus cantrip (high elf)4. Classes that can make attacks as a bonus action and cast a spell (level 7+ Eldritch Knights, 14+ Valor Bards).  And of course you have to melee with it so I am assuming melee damage. Fire is also a fairly common immunity/resistance so there is also that to factor in. You can also pick the cantrip up via the Magic Initiate Feat, Spellsniper feat or multiclassing. So I will go through the list. Classes with 1 attack. The obvious contender here is Rogue and a high elf makes a decent Rogue character an arcane trickster can also get it. Wizards, Warlocks, and Sorcerers can also easily get it, Druids and Clerics do not generally get it although they could if they really wanted to but due to MAD its probably a bad idea.  So the spell looks great for a Rogue. Buzzer goes off beep wrong. The reason is because of opportunity cost that being you are not duel wielding since you are a melee based Rogue. Duel wielding as a Rogue is like pseudo advantage to hit and doubles your chance of landing a sneak attack and you can deal an extrra 1d4 or 1d6 damage with it. This makes GFB entirely pointless at level 1-4 for the most part and debatable for level 5-10. An extra d8 damage vs a 1d6 and doubling your chance to sneak attack. It gets even worse if you have a multiclass Rogue with a single fighter level or several levels of ranger.  If you want a optimised Rogue BTW add in a fighter level or some ranger levels. Some Rogues may not want to dual wield (Masterminds, Thieves with healer feat) but you actually notice the difference a lot vs Rogues that do dual wield especially multi class ones. Use a cantrip to deal more damage but actually deal less damage makes perfect sense. 5 levels of hunter ranger also brings more to the damage party than 3d6 sneak attack (3 or 4 attacks a round, dex to damage with your off hand etc). As a Rogue don't do it basically at least from level 1-10 and if I put my powergamer hat on I would not bother after level 11 either (I would also not be a single classed Rogue).  This leaves some of the other classes with single attacks that might want to pick it up. Bladelock is an obvious one but you can't have multiple attacks with GFB so it is kind of pointless after level 5. From an optimisation PoV don't play a single classed bladelock. I could see the occasional dragon sorcerer wanting to use it in melee, and the even rarer wizard but I would not be rushing to use it although it is useful. It is quite good for most clerics if they can acquire it somehow, Druids are kind of like wizards when it comes to melee combat and a Moon Druid in melee will likely be in animal form so has no use for it.  This leaves gish based classes like the Eldritch Knight and Valor Bard. For the most part you have to make a choice between multiple attacks and using GFB from level 5 onwards. A Valor Bard can actually use it well at level 14 assuming they have not got a better use for their bonus action such as Polearm Master but they have to get it via feat, race or magical secrets at level 10. A Eldritch Knight can pick it up at level 3 but it obsoletes itself to some extent at level 5. It is useful again at level 7 through to 10 and then you are better off having 3 attacks a round at level 11. It also does not play nice for eldritch Knights if you have other uses for your bonus action (shied master feat, polearm master feat, great weapon master feat). So if you avoid tasking the best feats in the game and decide tyo use FB there are 6 levels from level 1-10 (3,4,7,8,9,10) where the spell is actually decent with 2 more levels if you are a high elf (1 and 2).  So in conclusion basically don't bother with GFB unless you are a cleric for the most part, or an High Elf Eldritch Knight that probably won't hit level 11 or a Sorcerer/Wizard/Warlock with aggressive/suicidal tendencies.</blockquote>

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