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<blockquote data-quote="FrozenNorth" data-source="post: 9598517" data-attributes="member: 7020832">I think the original post is fundamentally flawed.&nbsp; Basically, it takes an expansive definition of the term grognard (“Did you start playing 3.0 or earlier? Then you might be a grognard!&nbsp; Call our hotline to find out!”).But it fails on the second branch of what constitutes a demographic:&nbsp; does the group described have anything in common apart from their age?&nbsp; So, grogs who wish that 5.0 were more rules-lite like OSR are lumped in with 3.5 fans who feel there aren’t enough rules.&nbsp; Players who since moved on to more narrative options and expanded player agency are conflated with Players who consider the DM the sole arbiter of world-building.&nbsp; Should orcs be a PC-race race?&nbsp; Some grogs say yes, others say no.&nbsp; And of course, there are quite a few grogs (some even in this thread) who are broadly happy with the direction of 5th ed. and 5.5e.Saying grogs are a marketing segment and should be listened to is meaningless when the grogs as defined aren’t saying one thing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrozenNorth, post: 9598517, member: 7020832"] I think the original post is fundamentally flawed. Basically, it takes an expansive definition of the term grognard (“Did you start playing 3.0 or earlier? Then you might be a grognard! Call our hotline to find out!”). But it fails on the second branch of what constitutes a demographic: does the group described have anything in common apart from their age? So, grogs who wish that 5.0 were more rules-lite like OSR are lumped in with 3.5 fans who feel there aren’t enough rules. Players who since moved on to more narrative options and expanded player agency are conflated with Players who consider the DM the sole arbiter of world-building. Should orcs be a PC-race race? Some grogs say yes, others say no. And of course, there are quite a few grogs (some even in this thread) who are broadly happy with the direction of 5th ed. and 5.5e. Saying grogs are a marketing segment and should be listened to is meaningless when the grogs as defined aren’t saying one thing. [/QUOTE]

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