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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9602179" data-attributes="member: 6801228">No. You are completely and utterly missing my point. It is not that they would take issue with those things. It is that they would not have ADVOCATED for those things. Those things would not have been their ideas. You are taking a position that says "these are not the sort of ideas those people would clamor to see before they were created" and twisting it into "So you are saying they would hate those ideas?!" No. No. And again, NO.That 5%? They are the ones calling themselves Hardcore fans. And give it whatever percentage you want, but you cannot deny their existence when they are the ones we are largely talking about. Someone who just likes something a lot would not self-identify as a "Hardcore fan". There may be a thin line between a Super Fan and a Hardcore Fan, but for those who self-identify as hardcore? They may SAY that they have innovative ideas, but they rarely do. Often they want the changes to make something closer to the original, idealized version. They may SAY they are fine with change, but they are the strongest voice pushing back against change when it is proposed. They are the ones claiming something is bad BECAUSE it was a change, without really examining if it was bad in and of itself.  And again, before you strawman me, this is not ab absolute. People are not a monolith. But people do follow patterns.Because I have never seen a self-identified DnD Grognard state that they want WoTC to bring Glorantha into the fold. Or to bring back the Nentir Vale. Do you think I pulled the examples of Mystara, Birthright and Darksun out of the Aether? Those are real things, really proposed, by real people, on this forum. Does that mean they spit upon other settings before grinding them into the mud with disdain? No. I never said that, that you projecting your biases onto me. However, none of the self-identified Grognards proposed DnD should make a new setting featuring cutesy animal people in a forest. None of them proposed a Miyazaki inspired setting. Once exposed to them, they may like the ideas, but they did not COME UP with the ideas.</blockquote>

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