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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6829792" data-attributes="member: 42582">I think there is a lot of truth to these posts, especially the last one. Consider, for instance:What is mystical about a death attack? There are plenty of warriors in the real world, now and in the past, who can deliver killing attacks without using mystic powers!But I think the point can be developed further.There are a lot of ways to contribute to success in a FRPG besides degrading enemies in combat (whether that's via hit point attrition or something else). But for various reasons - some historical, to do with the design paths taken; some "cultural", and I think related to the preference for "it's magic" - they are hard to implement in D&D. For instance, Gandalf or Merlin exercise a lot of power by being counsellors and advisors. But D&D has relatively weak mechanics for counselling or persuading. And class "lore" abilities tend to be relatively confined and boutique (eg the bard's classic Legend Lore) rather than allowing loremaster PCs to have a big impact on the game in virtue of their lore: mostly they are just conduits for the GM's information. In LotR, for instance, Gandalf's knowledge of the ring, of the path through Moria, of the Balrog, etc, all have a dramatic impact on the story; but in D&D this would all be the relatively passive receipt of information from the GM.At the moment I am GMing a Burning Wheel game as well as 4e D&D. One of the most prominent PCs in the former game is a mage. He has cast fewer spells in the course of the game then we have played sessions (In the past four sessions the only spells he has cast are a Light spell, when exploring some caverns, and an Armour-type spell, when fighting in a trial by combat). But he is nevertheless very much at the forefront of play, using social skills, knowledge skills, his understanding of Astrology, his Second Sight (which is not a spell but more like a D&D feat), etc.While I think there is truth to this, I think there are other ways of getting the feel of playing a powerful wizard than just using spells. Drawing upon your lore mastery in other ways is one of them.One of the flashiest fictional mages around is Doctor Strange. But even he doesn't cast spells for everything; he draws upon his lore to help himself and his allies. D&D doesn't really have very much of this.I think this is a good point. I also feel that the urge to turn everything mystical or supernatural into a spell helps cause some of the "Potterverse" flavour that [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] points to. Gandalf, for instance, is mystically potent and has a big impact on events (which is what players in FRPGs tend to want to achieve) but casts relatively few spells.I think you need to look at other ways, then, for players to impact the fiction.If the player of a wizard PC, for instance, succeeds on a Demon Lore check, what bonus are you going to grant to the combat with the demon? (And not just knowledge of its MM stats, but an actual bonus, mechanically comparable perhaps to a 4e-style tactical warlord.)If the only reliable, impactful mechanics are straightforward combat mechanics, then players of wizards are pretty naturally going to want attack spells, rather than darts, or those new-fangled crossbows.</blockquote>

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