Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6830585" data-attributes="member: 22779">Thinking about clerics and druids, you can really see,&nbsp; I think, what I'm talking about here.&nbsp; In AD&amp;D, a cleric didn't have any direct damage spells until 2nd level with Spiritual Hammer and didn't get another one until 5th level spells.&nbsp; An 8th level cleric, outside of casting reverse Cure spells, has exactly ONE direct damage spell.&nbsp; That's it.&nbsp; Cleric spells were support.&nbsp; Druids were a bit better off with Produce Flame at 2nd and Call Lightning at 3rd, but, still, their spells were mostly based around support.&nbsp; Which was fine.&nbsp; Both classes were pretty capable in combat.&nbsp; Clerics might have lagged a bit behind fighters, but, not significantly.&nbsp; Druids were no slouches either - decent weapons, and a decent AC, if you had the Dex for it.&nbsp; Certainly both were miles ahead of the Magic User in combat.3e obviously changed this of course.&nbsp; Both clerics and druids gained direct damage spells and a number of indirect combat spells even in the core rules.&nbsp; Add various splats and the divine classes could blast with the best of them.Skip ahead to 5e and outside of war domain clerics, there's no reason, really, for clerics or druids to have any better weapon proficiencies than wizards.&nbsp; And, really, there isn't a whole lot of difference between them.&nbsp; The cleric and the druid are attacking with magic every single round.&nbsp; As I mentioned before, my 6th level Circle of Land Druid has yet to actually make a weapon attack roll.&nbsp; Why would he?&nbsp; His spells are significantly better than attacking with a scimitar or club.&nbsp; With the new magic system, every caster's schtick is to cast magic as often as possible.&nbsp; Every round spent not casting is generally seen as a wasted round.&nbsp; But, these classes were never based around casting before.&nbsp; You didn't play a druid because you wanted to drop a Moonbeam on enemies multiple times per day.&nbsp; You played a druid for the shape change and the ties to nature theme.&nbsp; How is pew pewing away with a Thorn Whip or Produce Flame any different than the warlock standing beside you dropping Fire bolt (or whatever the cantrip is called) every round?&nbsp; And this has a significant effect on the feel of the game.&nbsp; Whereas before, as I said, you might get a couple of spells per encounter, maybe, now you have multiple spells being cast per round.&nbsp; Why does having any magic at all now mean that your class pushes you to use magic as often as you possibly can?&nbsp; Can't we have classes with a different focus?&nbsp; I think Paladins and Rangers have it right.&nbsp; Sure, you might be dropping some spells, but, not all the bloody time.&nbsp; I'd love to see some class variants for core casters that follow a similar arc as the half casters.I guess my basic question is, why does every caster have to be a full caster?&nbsp; Why does being a caster mean that you are using magic every single round?&nbsp; Why can't we get some full casters, like druids and clerics, that aren't just wizard's in drag.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6830585, member: 22779"] Thinking about clerics and druids, you can really see, I think, what I'm talking about here. In AD&D, a cleric didn't have any direct damage spells until 2nd level with Spiritual Hammer and didn't get another one until 5th level spells. An 8th level cleric, outside of casting reverse Cure spells, has exactly ONE direct damage spell. That's it. Cleric spells were support. Druids were a bit better off with Produce Flame at 2nd and Call Lightning at 3rd, but, still, their spells were mostly based around support. Which was fine. Both classes were pretty capable in combat. Clerics might have lagged a bit behind fighters, but, not significantly. Druids were no slouches either - decent weapons, and a decent AC, if you had the Dex for it. Certainly both were miles ahead of the Magic User in combat. 3e obviously changed this of course. Both clerics and druids gained direct damage spells and a number of indirect combat spells even in the core rules. Add various splats and the divine classes could blast with the best of them. Skip ahead to 5e and outside of war domain clerics, there's no reason, really, for clerics or druids to have any better weapon proficiencies than wizards. And, really, there isn't a whole lot of difference between them. The cleric and the druid are attacking with magic every single round. As I mentioned before, my 6th level Circle of Land Druid has yet to actually make a weapon attack roll. Why would he? His spells are significantly better than attacking with a scimitar or club. With the new magic system, every caster's schtick is to cast magic as often as possible. Every round spent not casting is generally seen as a wasted round. But, these classes were never based around casting before. You didn't play a druid because you wanted to drop a Moonbeam on enemies multiple times per day. You played a druid for the shape change and the ties to nature theme. How is pew pewing away with a Thorn Whip or Produce Flame any different than the warlock standing beside you dropping Fire bolt (or whatever the cantrip is called) every round? And this has a significant effect on the feel of the game. Whereas before, as I said, you might get a couple of spells per encounter, maybe, now you have multiple spells being cast per round. Why does having any magic at all now mean that your class pushes you to use magic as often as you possibly can? Can't we have classes with a different focus? I think Paladins and Rangers have it right. Sure, you might be dropping some spells, but, not all the bloody time. I'd love to see some class variants for core casters that follow a similar arc as the half casters. I guess my basic question is, why does every caster have to be a full caster? Why does being a caster mean that you are using magic every single round? Why can't we get some full casters, like druids and clerics, that aren't just wizard's in drag. [/QUOTE]

Verification