Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="prosfilaes" data-source="post: 6831212" data-attributes="member: 40166">Going the other direction, when I'm watching the Secret of NIMH, and the mouse Mrs. Brisby does the oh-so-awesome feat of lifting a cinder block, I should scoff? Because according to your standard, as relative as any, but relative to baseline humans, that's a trivial feat.Where does it say that a level 6 Wizard can beat up a half dozen thugs without breaking a sweat? He certainly can't do it without getting hit. For my convenience, I'm going to refer to the Pathfinder NPC Codex to find hard numbers. A Cutpurse (human rogue 1) has AC 16, HP 10, and hits at a +3 for 1d6+2 damage. An Adventuring Blacksmith (half-elf fighter 6) has AC 20, HP 61 and hits at a +12/+7 for 1d8+7. A Tribal Seer (half-orc diviner 6)* has AC 16, HP 41 and hits at +3 for 2d4-1. The wizard 6 is landing blows at the same rate as the rogue 1, for less damage, taking on average 3 hits to drop a rogue. Even ignoring flanking and sneak attack, four of these rogues are going to slaughter our Seer. The Blacksmith, on the other hand, can reliably take out one rogue a turn, sometimes two.If we up the PCs to 12th level, we're really wasting the players' time with this battle. And the wizard tactically should get out of the way, because one Whirlwind Attack or Greater Cleave or the like is going to let the fighter take out the whole group at once. At worst, the fighter can kill three a turn. Unless the wizard enjoys battle, why would they get involved?* If you don't like that build, we can flip the page for a halfling evoker 7: AC 19, but HP 37 and hits at a +2 for 1d4-2. These ACs include mage armor.If my wizard 6 can't cast spells, it is life-threatening to for him to get involved in a battle with several level 1 rogues. It's a matter of a couple rounds and little danger for the fighter 6 to do so. Why should my character do other than stand in the back and watch if he's out of spells? Crossbow bolts cost money and aren't likely to make much difference.Again, this analysis may be much different for 5E. But they should hold for all of 3E, 3.5E and Pathfinder.</blockquote>

Verification