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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6835425" data-attributes="member: 22779">I'd argue that they all look pretty much the same now.  And they all look like wizards.  Sure, one might be wearing different armor and maybe is a bit themed, but, at the end of the day, they're all acting very much the same - standing in the back and tossing spell after spell after spell.  That's fine for wizards, AFAIC.  That's what wizards (and sorcs and warlocks too) should be doing.  Casting spells is their schtick.  It's right there in the name after all. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />But, again, why are bards, clerics and druids gaining spells that replace their combat skills?  Part of the class is that they actually HAVE reasonably decent combat skills.  But, that gets overshadowed by pew pew magic because it makes too much sense to rely on that.  Why bother trying to use Shillelagh to make my melee attacks equal my regular cantrip blasts?  OTOH, IMO, it would make a LOT more sense for a druid to not have Thorn Whip and Produce Flame (at least as a cantrip) and instead only have Shillelagh.  Makes a druid actually look like a druid instead of a nature themed wizard.  At then end of the day, Firebolt and Produce Flame aren't exactly very different.  And both of them look a lot like Sacred Flame.  ooo, attack roll vs Dex save.  Yeah, those play out completely differently.  :/ Actually, Vicious Mockery makes an excellent example.  At d4 (or 2d4 for most of play levels) damage + disadvantage, it's not exactly overshadowing the bard's regular attacks.  There's no reason a bard can't use a rapier or a longsword and deal more damage, although, he doesn't grant disadvantage on attacks obviously.  But, that's the point.  That's an actual interesting choice - deal more damage or deal less damage plus effect.  Clerics and Druids don't really have that choice.  Their at-wills are flat out better than their attacks.  Of course, all this kinda goes out the window because bards can choose at-wills from other spell lists.  But, again, that's not until 6th level (for Lore Bards) and by that point, the character has enough options that choosing to echew straight up attacks might not be a great option.  Again, it makes for interesting choices.  Never minding the Valor bard standing over there who really doesn't need to use cantrips to attack at all.  He's got the oomph to stand up in combat and be pretty effective.  The issue, for me, is that clerics and druids wind up looking too much like wizards because their at wills are as good if not better than any other option they could choose.  At least bards aren't really being pushed in that direction.</blockquote>

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