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Message: <blockquote data-quote="sunshadow21" data-source="post: 6850317" data-attributes="member: 6667193">To be fair, the more likely result is that both of you get dropped from the group. Him, because he's not doing his job, and you, because your stubborness is the main cause of him not doing his job and may well cause someone else to have the same reaction. You may not be entirely wrong, but you run into the problem of others changing the word "characters" in your last sentence to "players" and deciding that your insistence on not accepting the changes that have happened to the game over the years may not be worth it. You may not like wands and similar things, but someone who played only fighters was probably ecstatic to see them because it meant that the party didn't have to stop and rest after every other fight so the cleric could get their spells back.I get that you like playing healers and that you take that role seriously, but a lot of people want to play a cleric of a fire god as someone who actually uses fire magic, and isn't just a minor variant of the cleric worshipping a god of healing. I personally never was able to get into the cleric class because in order to be effective, every single cleric I ever saw in 3rd edition generally ended up playing exactly the same with virtually no variance based on the god nominally being worshipped. And the whole teamwork thing, while really nice in theory, rarely works nearly as well in the types of groups that have developed since D&D really took off and moved out of people's basements. Organized play, especially, requires a certain amount of self reliance that forces a bit of class evolution from the original concepts. I personally found the concept of the cleric class interesting, but the implementation was such that any concept that wasn't psuedo front line fighter or pure support/healer was basically unsupported. The fact that other options are now much better supported is a good thing to a lot of people.As for the role of magic in 5E, I don't see cantrips as being particularly magical in the way that spells are magical. If I want to play a magic user, I am not looking at cantrips as something that's super cool and shiny; they are a step up from ye olde crossbow, but ultimately they are just as limited as the crossbow, and most DMs aren't likely to allow all that much in trying to use them overly creatively because that usually just leads to headaches eventually. Rituals and cantrips are nice filler, but they don't really fill any role that skills, normal weapons, and fairly standard traveling gear couldn't fill in earlier editions; there's probably an exception or two out there, but not enough for either of those things to really scream "magic" to me. The spells are, and always will be, the heart and soul of a D&D class that relies on magic, and those are no more or less common than they have been in any other version. If anything, with the concentration rules written the way they are, they are more restricted, not less; by removing (or at least severely limiting) the ability to stack spells, they removed a lot of the abuse that spells received in earlier editions.</blockquote>

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