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<blockquote data-quote="tomBitonti" data-source="post: 6008064" data-attributes="member: 13107">A different problem of Horrifying Visage is that the &quot;push&quot; is actually a target action taken immediately on the Wight's turn.That works for me, but only as a &quot;90%&quot; case: That is, in 90% of cases the result of the visage will be that the target reacts to move away from the wight.&nbsp; (But then again, maybe 90% is too high: The wight is an evil bastard, and will try to use it's visage ability to force the target into a harmful location whenever possible.&nbsp; Wights are mean like that.)But then, &quot;Push&quot; is misleading, in that it really isn't the same as a &quot;Push&quot; from a bull rush.&nbsp; In this case, &quot;Push&quot; is really &quot;Forced Movement&quot;.But then, what if you used Horrifying Visage against a held or webbed opponent?&nbsp; Or against a slowly oozing intelligent gelatinous cube which has a two square movement?&nbsp; What if the terrain behind the target was a slippery slope which required a climb or perhaps a balance check?Then, the problem isn't so much disassociation, but instead that the ruled effect is too coarse for some tastes.&nbsp; Some folks will be OK with the 90% case, and others will want to have more details.Some of that turns into a control issue: The rules designers taking away the ability for the GM to manage the details of the game.&nbsp; Which turns into a trust and question of motivations issue very quickly.Thx!TomB</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tomBitonti, post: 6008064, member: 13107"] A different problem of Horrifying Visage is that the "push" is actually a target action taken immediately on the Wight's turn. That works for me, but only as a "90%" case: That is, in 90% of cases the result of the visage will be that the target reacts to move away from the wight. (But then again, maybe 90% is too high: The wight is an evil bastard, and will try to use it's visage ability to force the target into a harmful location whenever possible. Wights are mean like that.) But then, "Push" is misleading, in that it really isn't the same as a "Push" from a bull rush. In this case, "Push" is really "Forced Movement". But then, what if you used Horrifying Visage against a held or webbed opponent? Or against a slowly oozing intelligent gelatinous cube which has a two square movement? What if the terrain behind the target was a slippery slope which required a climb or perhaps a balance check? Then, the problem isn't so much disassociation, but instead that the ruled effect is too coarse for some tastes. Some folks will be OK with the 90% case, and others will want to have more details. Some of that turns into a control issue: The rules designers taking away the ability for the GM to manage the details of the game. Which turns into a trust and question of motivations issue very quickly. Thx! TomB [/QUOTE]

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