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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6008170" data-attributes="member: 87792">You know, I have exactly this problem with hit points and anything that interacts with them.&nbsp; It's the old &quot;Drop a tenth level fighter from orbit head first&quot; problem.Any game rules are a map not the territory itself.&nbsp; And do their best to reflect the territory.&nbsp; But there are basically three ways of handling complex situations.1: Model everything as precisely as possible.&nbsp; The GURPS way (and one D&amp;D has never done - no game with hp can).&nbsp; This was really big in the 70s and 80s.&nbsp; This has a lot of problems, not the least of which is that most effects in a game like this are fiddly and/or dull.&nbsp; You reach the GURPS alcoholic I mentioned earlier.&nbsp; And a lot of very fiddly numbers.2: Abstract rules as in FATE, Dread, Wushu, Fiasco, or Dogs in the Vineyard.&nbsp; Most modern StoryGames fit this pattern.&nbsp; These produce an excellent and evocative play experience but the actual fluff is almost entirely up to the players.&nbsp; It can handle anything rather than just specific effects laid down by the rules - but exploiting the fiction is much harder.3: Hybrid as in D&amp;D, Cortex, Storyteller.&nbsp; (And I think most of the major gaming systems of the past 20 years).&nbsp; The goal here is to get near enough the fiction without the complexity of the world and modelling all of it slowing you down.&nbsp; The more towards the abstract you go, the more you can do - but on the flipside the more of these second order interactions turn up that the game is not directly equipped to handle.That's not a problem.&nbsp; That's the reason you need a DM.&nbsp; Well, one reason.&nbsp; It crops up more in 4e than previous editions because 4e is fundamentally more ambitious - and does 3.X even try to say what happens when someone trapped in a <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm" target="_blank">Web</a> gets hit by <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gustOfWind.htm" target="_blank">Gust of Wind</a> or even a Bull Rush?&nbsp; It's in the undefined territory.That depends entirely on DMing - and if in doubt ask your DM.&nbsp; As a DM I'd answer that sort of question (or make you roll an arcana check) happily.&nbsp; And try to be consistent.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6008170, member: 87792"] You know, I have exactly this problem with hit points and anything that interacts with them. It's the old "Drop a tenth level fighter from orbit head first" problem. Any game rules are a map not the territory itself. And do their best to reflect the territory. But there are basically three ways of handling complex situations. 1: Model everything as precisely as possible. The GURPS way (and one D&D has never done - no game with hp can). This was really big in the 70s and 80s. This has a lot of problems, not the least of which is that most effects in a game like this are fiddly and/or dull. You reach the GURPS alcoholic I mentioned earlier. And a lot of very fiddly numbers. 2: Abstract rules as in FATE, Dread, Wushu, Fiasco, or Dogs in the Vineyard. Most modern StoryGames fit this pattern. These produce an excellent and evocative play experience but the actual fluff is almost entirely up to the players. It can handle anything rather than just specific effects laid down by the rules - but exploiting the fiction is much harder. 3: Hybrid as in D&D, Cortex, Storyteller. (And I think most of the major gaming systems of the past 20 years). The goal here is to get near enough the fiction without the complexity of the world and modelling all of it slowing you down. The more towards the abstract you go, the more you can do - but on the flipside the more of these second order interactions turn up that the game is not directly equipped to handle. That's not a problem. [I]That's the reason you need a DM[/I]. Well, one reason. It crops up more in 4e than previous editions because 4e is fundamentally more ambitious - and does 3.X even [I]try[/I] to say what happens when someone trapped in a [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm"]Web[/URL] gets hit by [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gustOfWind.htm"]Gust of Wind[/URL] or even a Bull Rush? It's in the undefined territory. That depends entirely on DMing - and if in doubt [I]ask your DM[/I]. As a DM I'd answer that sort of question (or make you roll an arcana check) happily. And try to be consistent. [/QUOTE]

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