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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6008954" data-attributes="member: 87792">I think we're getting down to a difference in reading styles here.&nbsp; My answers would be almost the same as Tony's to all those questions, for almost exactly the same reasoning.&nbsp;&nbsp; I don't think there was a single one of those cases where the designer didn't think of the fluff, write the mechanical implementation of that fluff down, and convey to both&nbsp; @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=996" target="_blank">Tony Vargas</a>&nbsp; and myself what was actually happening in the game world.&nbsp; It was written tersely - but the flavour and the explanation are at the very least implied.And I find having to wade through so-called associated mechanics such as <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#evocation" target="_blank">Evocation</a> [<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#descriptor" target="_blank">Fire</a>]
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#level" target="_blank">Level</a>:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/sorcererWizardSpells.htm#thirdLevelSorcererWizardSpells" target="_blank">Sor/Wiz 3</a>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#components" target="_blank">Components</a>:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; V, S, M&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#castingTime" target="_blank">Casting Time</a>:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions" target="_blank">standard action</a>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range" target="_blank">Range</a>:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#area" target="_blank">Area</a>:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 20-ft.-radius spread&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#duration" target="_blank">Duration</a>:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Instantaneous&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow" target="_blank">Saving Throw</a>:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Reflex half&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 
<a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#spellResistance" target="_blank">Spell Resistance</a>:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Yes&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 

A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure. 

&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at&nbsp; which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from&nbsp; the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid&nbsp; barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the&nbsp; fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early&nbsp; detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage,&nbsp; such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#touchAttacks" target="_blank">touch attack</a>, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely. 

&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area.&nbsp; It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper,&nbsp; silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier&nbsp; shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the&nbsp; barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as&nbsp; any other spell effect does. 

Material Component

&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A tiny ball of bat guano and sulfur. 
to be obnoxious, tedious, and to slow the game down without adding any relevant detail.&nbsp; I need to read the above three paragraph description at least twice to make sure I'm not missing anything.&nbsp; When the rubber meets the road I just want to be able to glance at the mechanics and read:Fireball: Level 3 Evocation
You point your finger and a red-gold pea-sized bead of elemental fire shoots out from it, exploding on impact
1 Standard Action.
Range: Long
Area: 20 foot radius Burst (or volume: however many cubic feet)
Target: Everything in burst
Effect: Level*d6 fire damage (max 10d6), reflex save for half.
That takes me maybe ten seconds to read, and contains enough material to cover at least 95% of all uses of fireball.&nbsp; The V,S,M parts are implied once we're on spell component pouches - the unusual spells are those that don't have verbal and somatic components.&nbsp; And likewise spell resistance - spells that don't allow spell resistance should need highlighting.So what's missing?&nbsp; No pressure or force?&nbsp; No keywords for thunder or force.&nbsp; That you can set things on fire or melt metals with low melting points?&nbsp; Fire keyword.&nbsp; (Actually you really shouldn't be able to melt things with a low melting point but that's another story).&nbsp; Feeding the fireball through a small gap?&nbsp; Pea sized bead, explodes on impact.&nbsp; The DM has enough information to make that rules call.Oh, yes.&nbsp; There's one thing we're actually missing.&nbsp; Bat guano and sulphur.&nbsp; My 4e style spell description didn't include the bat guano or the sulphur.The designer hasn't omited the details.&nbsp; They are right there, implicit in the text.&nbsp; Literally the only details not implicit in the 4e style statblock are the bat guano and sulphur.&nbsp; The details just aren't painted flourescent orange and getting in the way of me getting on with the interesting parts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6008954, member: 87792"] I think we're getting down to a difference in reading styles here. My answers would be almost the same as Tony's to all those questions, for almost exactly the same reasoning. I don't think there was a single one of those cases where the designer didn't think of the fluff, write the mechanical implementation of that fluff down, and convey to both @[U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=996"]Tony Vargas[/URL][/U] and myself what was actually happening in the game world. It was written tersely - but the flavour and the explanation are at the very least implied. And I find having to wade through so-called associated mechanics such as [INDENT][B][URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#evocation"]Evocation[/URL] [[URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#descriptor"]Fire[/URL]][/B] [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#level"]Level[/URL]: [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/sorcererWizardSpells.htm#thirdLevelSorcererWizardSpells"]Sor/Wiz 3[/URL] [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#components"]Components[/URL]: V, S, M [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#castingTime"]Casting Time[/URL]: 1 [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardActions"]standard action[/URL] [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#range"]Range[/URL]: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#area"]Area[/URL]: 20-ft.-radius spread [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#duration"]Duration[/URL]: Instantaneous [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#savingThrow"]Saving Throw[/URL]: Reflex half [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#spellResistance"]Spell Resistance[/URL]: Yes A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure. You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. (An early impact results in an early detonation.) If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged [URL="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#touchAttacks"]touch attack[/URL], or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely. The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does. [B]Material Component[/B] A tiny ball of bat guano and sulfur. [/INDENT]to be obnoxious, tedious, and to slow the game down without adding any relevant detail. I need to read the above three paragraph description at least twice to make sure I'm not missing anything. When the rubber meets the road I just want to be able to glance at the mechanics and read:[INDENT][B]Fireball: Level 3 Evocation[/B] [I]You point your finger and a red-gold pea-sized bead of elemental fire shoots out from it, exploding on impact[/I] [B]1 Standard Action.[/B] [B]Range:[/B] Long [B]Area:[/B] 20 foot radius Burst (or volume: however many cubic feet) [B]Target:[/B] Everything in burst [B]Effect:[/B] Level*d6 fire damage (max 10d6), reflex save for half. [/INDENT]That takes me maybe ten seconds to read, and contains enough material to cover at least 95% of all uses of fireball. The V,S,M parts are implied once we're on spell component pouches - the unusual spells are those that [I]don't[/I] have verbal and somatic components. And likewise spell resistance - spells that [I]don't[/I] allow spell resistance should need highlighting. So what's missing? No pressure or force? No keywords for thunder or force. That you can set things on fire or melt metals with low melting points? Fire keyword. (Actually you really shouldn't be able to melt things with a low melting point but that's another story). Feeding the fireball through a small gap? Pea sized bead, explodes on impact. The DM has enough information to make that rules call. Oh, yes. There's one thing we're actually missing. Bat guano and sulphur. My 4e style spell description didn't include the bat guano or the sulphur. The designer hasn't omited the details. They are right there, implicit in the text. Literally the only details not implicit in the 4e style statblock are the bat guano and sulphur. The details just aren't painted flourescent orange and getting in the way of me getting on with the interesting parts. [/QUOTE]

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