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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 7136906" data-attributes="member: 6787650">Why would you make them both dwarven fighters? If you're trying to pull your own weight in a two-man party, you don't make a second fighter.Super Dave the Dwarven Fighter will appreciate having Reorx the Dwarven Cleric to bless him/heal him/conjure food and water; he would appreciate having Fizban the Human Wizard to do crowd control and divinations; he would appreciate having Merry the Swashbuckling Halfling to scout ahead and tell him where the weak targets are.In fact, in a party with Super Dave the Fighter, even ANOTHER Super Dave the Fighter is potentially going to make someone feel overshadowed or redundant (depending on how vulnerable the players' feelings are and how much they need to feel unique). Your complaint just illustrates the fact that it's not about stats at all--it's about lack of player savvy.I'll repeat my challenge:Challenge: sketch out a group of three or four 9th level PCs with high stats (e.g. each one of them has two 18s and no stat under 14), who are so good that no 9th level PC I make with a high stat of 14 can meaningfully contribute to their adventures. (If you want to choose another level besides 9th you can, but it's best if it's at least 5th because at extremely low levels, table-dependent factors like equipment, social contacts, and DMing style will dominate--making it 9th level makes it easier to have an Internet discussion since you can point to concrete abilities.)I assure you that I'm not going to make them all the same class.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 7136906, member: 6787650"] Why would you make them both dwarven fighters? If you're trying to pull your own weight in a two-man party, you don't make a second fighter. Super Dave the Dwarven Fighter will appreciate having Reorx the Dwarven Cleric to bless him/heal him/conjure food and water; he would appreciate having Fizban the Human Wizard to do crowd control and divinations; he would appreciate having Merry the Swashbuckling Halfling to scout ahead and tell him where the weak targets are. In fact, in a party with Super Dave the Fighter, even ANOTHER Super Dave the Fighter is potentially going to make someone feel overshadowed or redundant (depending on how vulnerable the players' feelings are and how much they need to feel unique). Your complaint just illustrates the fact that it's not about stats at all--it's about lack of player savvy. I'll repeat my challenge: [B]Challenge:[/B] sketch out a group of three or four 9th level PCs with high stats (e.g. each one of them has two 18s and no stat under 14), who are so good that no 9th level PC I make with a high stat of 14 can meaningfully contribute to their adventures. (If you want to choose another level besides 9th you can, but it's best if it's at least 5th because at extremely low levels, table-dependent factors like equipment, social contacts, and DMing style will dominate--making it 9th level makes it easier to have an Internet discussion since you can point to concrete abilities.) I assure you that I'm not going to make them all the same class. [/QUOTE]

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