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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MostlyHarmless42" data-source="post: 7137199" data-attributes="member: 6845520">You say allow, I say forces, and this is coming from someone who enjoys the challenge of an int 8 wizard...when I know that's what I'm getting into. The cost of this incentive to play characters that players might not have considered is the fairly decent chance other players get completely screwed out of playing the character they wanted to play, to say nothing of the concerns of leaving cohesive party composition to the fate of the dice, and the fact that practically all types of characters one could end up rolling are still doable with the array or point buy, except those who are gratuitously overpowered or weak.Additionally, once the DM start allowing rerolls it does in fact invalidate the original 4d6 method because it removes the elements of randomness to the creation process and leaves you entirely up to the whims of the DM as to what is "good enough". Hell, I've seen some power gamer DM's NOT allow anything less than a 16 in your primary stat before, and this does not address the issue of some characters ending up being stronger than others. Balancing the game around one player with straight 16-18s another with straight 10s, and even the rest as average is a veritable nightmare. I'm not saying it's not doable and point buy is perfect, but when I have to jump through multiple extra hoops as a DM AND start throwing out multiple caveats to the rolling process (to say nothing of players trying to cheat the dice) just to make the game more "fair", I'll take point buy any day. If I want my players stronger, I'll just give them a few more points to spend.Also, this completely ignores another concern: ability score increases. In any game with fears lucky players end up VERY overpowered because they can pick up multiple extra feats, and in any game without, they very quickly have the opposite problem, their characters end up with no room to grow and end up boring because of it. Meanwhile, unlucky rolling players spend their entire time increasing their scores just so they can actually function, and the gap just grows wider.As far as the enforcing the order with rolls, that isn't the default rules (to my knowledge), but a relic of an older time from first edition.</blockquote>

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