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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 7140052" data-attributes="member: 6787650">Your numbers are wrong. At 5th level, Tik's Athletics bonus is +9. (Str 16 + 6 from Expertise.) Tok's is +8. (Str 20 + 3 from presumed proficiency.)Why are you so panicked at the thought of making Tik a multiclassed fighter/rogue? You yourself pondered the option of making her a full rogue--you rejected it because &quot;then we don't have a second front line fighter that the group needs&quot;.BTW, note that there is a good reason for Tok not to specialize in grappling: because he is better at direct damage, the opportunity cost for grappling is higher. It's quite conceivable that he might eventually specialize in GWM fighting, in which case the synergies between him and Tik will get even more obvious.I tried to take your comment about wanting &quot;synergies&quot; at face value, but it looks like you're not interested in finding ways to make Tik and Tok work after all. You're just interested in looking for ways to make Tik bad so you can complain about the differential between them.If you want Tik and Tok to be identical, why would you even roll separate stats for them in the first place? Either just take PHB option #2 (standard array), or ask the DM if you can roll one set of stats and use it for both twins. (Perhaps dwarf gender is determined environmentally and not genetically, like crocodile gender is determined by heat--so Tik and Tok might even be in fact identical twins.)But if you want Tik and Tok to be identical, you should have been honest enough to just say it up front. E.g. &quot;We could switch Tik over to be a mediocre rogue, but then [she would no longer be identical to Tok, thus violating my wife's vision of her.&quot; Don't try to pretend that you're actually looking for an optimal strategy for Tik--just admit that the mere fact that they are different from each other is what you object to.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 7140052, member: 6787650"] Your numbers are wrong. At 5th level, Tik's Athletics bonus is +9. (Str 16 + 6 from Expertise.) Tok's is +8. (Str 20 + 3 from presumed proficiency.) Why are you so panicked at the thought of making Tik a multiclassed fighter/rogue? You yourself pondered the option of making her a full rogue--you rejected it because "then we don't have a second front line fighter that the group needs". BTW, note that there is a good reason for Tok not to specialize in grappling: because he is better at direct damage, the opportunity cost for grappling is higher. It's quite conceivable that he might eventually specialize in GWM fighting, in which case the synergies between him and Tik will get even more obvious. I tried to take your comment about wanting "synergies" at face value, but it looks like you're not interested in finding ways to make Tik and Tok work after all. You're just interested in looking for ways to make Tik bad so you can complain about the differential between them. If you want Tik and Tok to be identical, why would you even roll separate stats for them in the first place? Either just take PHB option #2 (standard array), or ask the DM if you can roll one set of stats and use it for both twins. (Perhaps dwarf gender is determined environmentally and not genetically, like crocodile gender is determined by heat--so Tik and Tok might even be in fact [I]identical[/I] twins.) But if you want Tik and Tok to be identical, you should have been honest enough to just say it up front. E.g. "We could switch Tik over to be a mediocre rogue, but then [she would no longer be identical to Tok, thus violating my wife's vision of her." Don't try to pretend that you're actually looking for an optimal strategy for Tik--just admit that the mere fact that they are different from each other is what you object to. [/QUOTE]

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