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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 7194790" data-attributes="member: 7635">I figured the &quot;YMMV&quot; would be implied, but since your anecdotal evidence doesn't invalidate mine, we'll call it a wash.See, this is where I get into my problem; I played with a fair number of players over different groups, some of who never met one another. Very few didn't have a 16+ (and commonly, an 18) in their classes primary stat. Usually, they had an additional 15-16, a few 12-14s, and maybe a 10-11 for a &quot;dump&quot; stat. I don't think I ever saw a PC miss out the Prime Requisite XP bonus. Part of the reason was AD&amp;D's ridiculous &quot;15+ to get a stat bump&quot; rule, but the trend did continue into 3e (when stat bumps were available at 12). I saw paladins and rangers with less than an 18/% str, but raw fighters? Never. I don't think I saw many wizards without an 18 Int, (max spells known/9th level access), Clerics without an 18 Wis (max bonus spells/7th level access) and thieves without 18 dex (Max % bonus on thief skills and AC; in fact elves and halflings were even more common because you could get a 19 dex for even more uber bonus). I had thought that 3e's ability score bumps would cure the need to start with an 18, but all it did was make 20+ reachable. So I experimented with 32 point buy in a 3.5 game. It worked. When I ran 4e for a short while, I used the default point buy spread. When I ran Pathfinder, I did High Fantasy variant PB, and in 5e I've done default amount PB. Its worked; people still put high scores in primes, but I usually get 16 and 14 for starting scores and one-or-two 8-10s, not the uber rolls I was used to. I also got less discrepancy between the &quot;old&quot; players who played 2e and &quot;newer&quot; who played 3e; the latter tended to &quot;roll better&quot; then the newer.&nbsp; But it broke the habit, and while I do have a few players gripe about missing &quot;4d6&quot;, they understand that it does keep their scores more honest.Next up, rolling HP, or why none of the PCs ever had less than 75% of their potential max hp...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 7194790, member: 7635"] I figured the "YMMV" would be implied, but since your anecdotal evidence doesn't invalidate mine, we'll call it a wash. See, this is where I get into my problem; I played with a fair number of players over different groups, some of who never met one another. Very few didn't have a 16+ (and commonly, an 18) in their classes primary stat. Usually, they had an additional 15-16, a few 12-14s, and maybe a 10-11 for a "dump" stat. I don't think I ever saw a PC miss out the Prime Requisite XP bonus. Part of the reason was AD&D's ridiculous "15+ to get a stat bump" rule, but the trend did continue into 3e (when stat bumps were available at 12). I saw paladins and rangers with less than an 18/% str, but raw fighters? Never. I don't think I saw many wizards without an 18 Int, (max spells known/9th level access), Clerics without an 18 Wis (max bonus spells/7th level access) and thieves without 18 dex (Max % bonus on thief skills and AC; in fact elves and halflings were even more common because you could get a 19 dex for even more uber bonus). I had thought that 3e's ability score bumps would cure the need to start with an 18, but all it did was make 20+ reachable. So I experimented with 32 point buy in a 3.5 game. It worked. When I ran 4e for a short while, I used the default point buy spread. When I ran Pathfinder, I did High Fantasy variant PB, and in 5e I've done default amount PB. Its worked; people still put high scores in primes, but I usually get 16 and 14 for starting scores and one-or-two 8-10s, not the uber rolls I was used to. I also got less discrepancy between the "old" players who played 2e and "newer" who played 3e; the latter tended to "roll better" then the newer. But it broke the habit, and while I do have a few players gripe about missing "4d6", they understand that it does keep their scores more honest. Next up, rolling HP, or why none of the PCs ever had less than 75% of their potential max hp... [/QUOTE]

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