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Message: <blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 2638054" data-attributes="member: 22424">If we're talking about the development of realistic politics in a world with magic, we need to consider how cultures would adapt to the presence of said magic. In fact, the existence of alignment is not really a big factor here - the moment it becomes possible for a diplomat to be subjected to any effect that reads his thoughts, some sort of countermeasure must be developed. As mentioned earlier in the thread, the most effective means of doing this is by employing diplomats who know only what they need to know, and nothing more. However, I suspect this may not be enough - to do his job effectively, the diplomat probably needs to know sensitive information.I think that the most likely response to the existence of telepathic effects is that the meeting of diplomats would probably take place under anti-magic protection, or perhaps under the watchful eyes of powerful bodyguards, who won't take kindly to any spellcasting on the part of the opposing wizards. (And that would need to occur in rooms shielded from scrying, and... Basically, the development of a realistic culture in a world featuring D&D magic is a very difficult task, if one wants it to stand up to serious scrutiny.)Fair enough, not a great example. However, detect evil doesn't detect evil intent, only evil creatures.True, but it's still not terribly useful. Good creatures still can and do screw each other over, given sufficient need or motivation. (A human kingdom deperately needs to build a fleet of warships to defend themselves. Sadly, the only easily-available forests are the holdings of the elven people on their borders.) Good creatures make errors of judgement, and come to truly believe that actions are moral when they are not (bear in mind that a character of such mistaken views remains Good until his actions dictate otherwise). The Good cleric takes the view that he knows best, and gives a false report to derail negotiations (or to encourage negotiations where he should not). Or the evil necromancer gleefully acknowledges that he's evil, but holds sufficient clout that the Good kingdom has to negotiate.Also, Discern Lies and Zone of Truth both have Will saves. So they're not exactly reliable, in addition to being rather limited in scope.Sure, I'll not argue with that. I just needed an example, and that was as close as I could get.I'll not argue that. However, I also think that realistic politics probably means that you won't get kingdoms ruled by wise and noble paladins, probably at all. There are too many cases where the good of a nation requires some sort of compromise of ideals, and so a paladin is unlikely to remain so for very long, or is likely to be a very unpopular ruler. (Simple example: if 3% of your population are extremely wealthy nobles, and 10% are starving on the streets, and the royal coffers are empty, what do you do? At what point does just taxation of the rich to feed the poor become unjust theft? And even if it never becomes theft, how long will it be before the nobles decide that they're better off removing their king, and placing their own puppet in his place?)</blockquote>

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