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<blockquote data-quote="Mal Malenkirk" data-source="post: 5387013" data-attributes="member: 834">Well, you have to take the player's expectations and interests into account, not just your own.&nbsp; Why does the player need to be lead by the hand?&nbsp; Many reasons, but it could be he is bored.&nbsp; To be engaged, you have to be motivated.&nbsp; Some people don't really care about the minutiae you described in that example;I don't know if that kind of thing is common in your games, but if it is, I would be player two.&nbsp; Why?&nbsp; Mostly because I wouldn't give a rat's ass about the statue.&nbsp; I don't care how the dried oranges might interact with the statue or whatever else you had in mind.&nbsp; All I want is to get by this statue and door with a perception check and/or a thievery check.&nbsp; Actually, if you let me know that a failed check sounds the alarm, you have my attention.&nbsp; If you expect me to solve some kind of puzzle, I'll leave the room for a beer and hope somebody else solved it by the time I am back.&nbsp; When I want to do a brain teaser I do a sudoku or crossword puzzles (I really do!). Personally, I like two things more than any other about D&amp;D:&nbsp; Nail Biting fights and interacting with other PCs and NPCs.&nbsp; I want interesting villains and allies and then I want to interact with them until it leads to battles that I feel invested in.&nbsp; All of my best D&amp;D memories are wacky quotes from crazy exchanges my PCs had with the other PCs and NPCs or awesome moments in a battle (both awesomely good or bad).&nbsp; None involve a tree with dried apple and no enemy in sight.&nbsp; There is no tension in this scene; There is only the possibility of screwing up if you don't conform to whatever the DM decided was an acceptable course of action.&nbsp; Yawn.I don't like puzzles; they usually are much better in the DM's eyes than in mine.&nbsp; And I really hate to get bogged down in details.&nbsp; That's my opinion.&nbsp; Other people focus on different things as is their right.&nbsp; But understand this; just as you are thinking that you aren't dealing with an ideal player, the player is probably thinking he is not dealing with an ideal DM.&nbsp; If you got one or two puzzles fans in your group, feed them this statue bit and adress mostly them.&nbsp; Just make sure it is quick and to the point in order not to bore the others and then move on to something that engages them.&nbsp; You have to give the people what they want.&nbsp; And there damn well better not be another 'what do you do' scene behind the door!&nbsp; And if NONE of the players feel engaged by the kind of situation you described, stop doing it altogether. PS: 'What do you do?' isn't nearly as important as 'What do you want?'.&nbsp; IMO, anyway.&nbsp; 'What do you do?' when I am in a situation I don't care for in the first place isn't that useful.&nbsp; If you'd ask me what I wanted first, we wouldn't be in this bind!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mal Malenkirk, post: 5387013, member: 834"] Well, you have to take the player's expectations and interests into account, not just your own. Why does the player need to be lead by the hand? Many reasons, but it could be he is bored. To be engaged, you have to be motivated. Some people don't really care about the minutiae you described in that example; I don't know if that kind of thing is common in your games, but if it is, I would be player two. Why? Mostly because I wouldn't give a rat's ass about the statue. I don't care how the dried oranges might interact with the statue or whatever else you had in mind. All I want is to get by this statue and door with a perception check and/or a thievery check. Actually, if you let me know that a failed check sounds the alarm, you have my attention. If you expect me to solve some kind of puzzle, I'll leave the room for a beer and hope somebody else solved it by the time I am back. When I want to do a brain teaser I do a sudoku or crossword puzzles (I really do!). Personally, I like two things more than any other about D&D: Nail Biting fights and interacting with other PCs and NPCs. I want interesting villains and allies and then I want to interact with them until it leads to battles that I feel invested in. All of my best D&D memories are wacky quotes from crazy exchanges my PCs had with the other PCs and NPCs or awesome moments in a battle (both awesomely good or bad). None involve a tree with dried apple and no enemy in sight. There is no tension in this scene; There is only the possibility of screwing up if you don't conform to whatever the DM decided was an acceptable course of action. Yawn. I don't like puzzles; they usually are much better in the DM's eyes than in mine. And I really hate to get bogged down in details. That's my opinion. Other people focus on different things as is their right. But understand this; just as you are thinking that you aren't dealing with an ideal player, the player is probably thinking he is not dealing with an ideal DM. If you got one or two puzzles fans in your group, feed them this statue bit and adress mostly them. Just make sure it is quick and to the point in order not to bore the others and then move on to something that engages them. You have to give the people what they want. And there damn well better not be another 'what do you do' scene behind the door! And if NONE of the players feel engaged by the kind of situation you described, stop doing it altogether. PS: 'What do you do?' isn't nearly as important as 'What do you want?'. IMO, anyway. 'What do you do?' when I am in a situation I don't care for in the first place isn't that useful. If you'd ask me what I wanted first, we wouldn't be in this bind! [/QUOTE]

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