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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Haltherrion" data-source="post: 5387039" data-attributes="member: 18253">If you are talking about a particular instance regarding players who are otherwise engaged it could be the players were tired, just not interested in a puzzle like that, or other similar issues. Assuming it's a more long-standing problem my approach is to "train" the group of players. Coach them on what I expect, show them by how scenarios play out that they can influence events, make it clear that their actions matter and that I expect them to solve difficult problems. If they don't will they die? Very rarely but they can expect to miss out on things they would rather not miss out on. I say group and not player because in the end, not all players will always get engaged with these things. In any group, there are usually some who engage sometimes and some who almost never do. Of the former, not all will be 'on' at any given moment. But if the group can solve a problem, I'm happy as a ref. As someone else replied, though, sometimes a lack of engagement on a problem can mean a lack of engagement in the game itself. Or it can mean that the players think their actions don't matter. Why solve a hard puzzle if the ref has previously demonstrated that the plot is linear and he'll get them through that door one way or another? Or the players might be new to you and used to more linear games or games without puzzles. I find that with patience most players will eventually step up to solve problems often enough. I don't do true puzzles (as opposed to problems that make them think) a lot but I had one introduced in session 1 that just resolved in session 11. It involved finding different chambers with clues and working out sequences for basically a combination lock. It was introduced as a hook that they did not have to bite on and they could abandon it at will (and often did non-related things) but the fact that someone else was racing them to the end and had tricked them in a way that almost killed one of them spurred them on, as well as the belief there was a substantial reward on this path (and there was <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />). It was a fairly hard and involved puzzle that involved finding these chambers as well as solving the sequence (the latter they did with surprising ease but you never know with players). But it played out over many sessions and they could control when and how they did it. As a player or ref, I don't mind an involved puzzle if it is optional. I do mind them if it is required for any further progress that night.</blockquote>

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