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Message: <blockquote data-quote="howandwhy99" data-source="post: 5392518" data-attributes="member: 3192">Personally, I would drop Dungeoneering rolls or any Knowledge-based rolls that asked the question "what do you, the DM, want me to do here?"  I believe that gets back to telling the players how the should play the game rather than letting them play it for their own ends.  But that's up to what everyone at the table desires.To the first, I think D&D has always had a poor set of unwritten rules.  IMO, any time the players are submitting PC backgrounds they are putting stuff into the game.  The DM works with them to clarify elements and say no to what contradicts the code behind the screen, but even this is part of learning that code and the playing of the game.  To the second quote, this is a lot what the DM is doing.  If the players declare they are going shopping for a boat, then the GM needs to either generate a boat or configure what a "boat" is to the players in order to include it.  Player intentions are always telling the ref what they desire, though questioning to find a higher degree of explicitness is often required.I disagree with any kind of veto power too.  Listed races and classes are prepared works like those found in the 4E PHB, but any race, class, power, whatever, could be submitted under the last on that list: Custom.  For me, this works just like backgrounds.My question is, what is relevant?  How is the DM supposed to know beforehand what is relevant to the players and what isn't without those players telling him or her beforehand?  I think this mindset is coming from another question, what does the DM want me to do here?  My response would be: play your class.  Be the best fighting man, cleric, magic-user you can be.  That's the game's objective.  Perhaps plot relevancy is what's being referred to though.  "What is the plotline we are supposed to follow that the DM has created?"  Well, my plot is the same as in most games, games like chess, cards, sports, and boardgames.  That is, figure out how to achieve the objectives you've set.  There is no one path.  In Chess the plot is the rules.  Ditto for the other games.  In my D&D games the plot is the code behind the screen, like a game of Mastermind it is decoded slowly but surely through play.  The world is the plot and everything in it, not a series of events players are expected to follow.So, what is the description supposed to be relevant to?  Until we know that, I find it impossible to answer ...well, relevantly.</blockquote>

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