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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Krensky" data-source="post: 5435487" data-attributes="member: 30936">By all means, although by the time we're done I hope we'll stake out where we agree (possibly the majority) and where we don't (and won't).See, this sounds like Forge-esk touchy-feely gobbledy gook to me. The premise is "Holy champion granted power due to his faith and devotion." If his faith and devotion isn't up to snuff, his god gets annoyed and withholds his blessing. Now hold on to your spleen, I'll come back to this with an more in depth discussion below. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I don't remember the thread or if I commented on it, but I'd only have one question for Shilsen and his GM. What does his deity think about his patronizing prostitutes? Not the church, not the other people on the thread, the deity. Regarding the ethics and morality of it are debatable, there's more then enough argument for the act to be perfectly in line with a lawful good alignment. Again, I'll get back to this below.He is an interesting character. Since he kept the paladin status, I can only assume the deity (or whatever) agreed with Shilsen's arguments. If the deity was described as only being cool with sex within marriage (and wasn't so legalistic that a contractual temporary marriage fulfills this requirement) then Cedric and his deity should have had a talk or three. Not knowing the nature of the deity it's hard to say if he should even have lost his status even if his god wasn't ok with it. If the god is more of a crusading god of righteousness, and order the god might even have sighed and scolded Cedric every fortnight as a proforma exercise as long as Cedric kept bringing the pain to his deities enemies.It depends on the world. The one I'm currently using was started because I was bored and got an itch. So I sat down with my laptop and a ten hour fugue later I had the basis of the world down. Some of my friends read it, it, thought it was cool and got their creativity charged up, and asked me to run it.Yes, and? Those requirements infor for answer, but they don't make a world building issue a play issue or vice-versa. You're welcome to your opinion, but in my experience you're wrong. Going to my other current game, in Golarion I have a number of people who are devout followers or will be devout followers of a deity.It depends on the metaphysics of the world. And why can't the PC double-cross a god? No different then double-crossing any other very powerful NPC. Either he's strong and clever enough to pull it off, or he plans and finds some other powerful NPC to help him out. Heck, my current game system has a whole subplot (Crisis of Faith) that covers it. Typical. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Ok, here's where I'm going to address specifics regarding alignments and play. Bear with me, I haven't used the D&D style alignment you're discussing since, um, 2005... maybe. Anyway.The alignment line on the character sheet is a personality short-hand. It's like the labels from a Myers-Briggs test. Their convenient terms referencing broad classifications, but they're largely useless for actual work and prediction. They describe the character's morals and ethics in very simplistic terms.Now, in the case of a Paladin, the alignment isn't really as important as the deity in determining play.The question isn't: "Is that action consistent with you lawful good alignment?" It's: "Is that action consistent with the teachings of the great god Woo."As I said, I've been playing Fantasy Craft for the past two years. Like I mentioned up thread Alignments are defined by the GM. The samples include the four classics (Chaos, Order, Good, Evil), the four Aristotelian elements, and a stereotypical Dwarven father god. The Alignments in the settings presented in Time of High Adventure and the Adventure Companion along with comments by the developers and general consensus by the community is that Alignments, in most cases, should be specific in nature. A specific church. A specific sect or order. A specific deity. A specific philosophy. This is largely how I've adjudicated characters of faith for years before that.So in my Nephos game the alignments include the the various sects of the Maker, the Corrupter, and a smattering of others. In my Runelords game the Alignments are the various divine magic granting powers, the gods, the demons, the devils, the philosophies, etc.It doesn't matter what the temporal authorities of your faith think, it matters what you and whatever the power involved think. In my Nephos game all that really matters is your faith since there aren't any deities or powers involved, it's the same power source arcane casters invoke, just a different set of subroutines and access systems. In Golarion, it's a matter of your character's opinion of his own adherence and strength of faith, which is the player's bailiwick, and the Power's which is mine.So for all these alignment issues about whether or not a PC is good or evil or whatever enough the issue isn't my opinion of their actions, it's the power they derive their strength from. I don't remember the last time I played in a setting where the faiths were not either detailed or stereotypical enough for this to be an issue. Similarly, I've never played with (on either side of the screen) who interpreted these questions as anything more then game issues.This is why any question about the nature and how to play or use the alignment rules is, at it's core, a world building issue since the answers to those questions are inherently tied to the nature of the world.</blockquote>

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