Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ultimatecalibur" data-source="post: 5503114" data-attributes="member: 59539">I will be blunt; I don't like wealth by level guidelines. This is actually for several reasons. Some of the major ones are:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Treasure becomes Payment instead of Reward - When you know how much money/gold/magic items you are getting in a time period (in this case the time it takes you to gain the xp to go up a level) it isn't a reward its a payment. Rewards are exciting and unexpected. Payments aren't. Bounty hunters and lawmen get paid for catching criminals with bounties on there heads; other people get rewards because they were not expecting to get the bounty. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic Items become less Magical - If you are guaranteed to have a +5 weapon by level 25, that +5 to hit and damage becomes a modifier and not a bonus. Modifiers are normal, ordinary and nothing special. Designers will factor them into the math when creating opponents, and at that point there is practically no difference between a creature designed to be hit by a +5 weapon when a character is expected to have a +5 weapon and one designed to be hit without a +X weapon when +X or greater weapons are unavailable. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Players start to feel entitled to having the Items and Treasure they want - While it isn't a problem caused directly by wealth by level guidelines, it does exists when those guidelines are combined with the ability to make and/or purchase any/most items they want. Situations such as this start appearing: "We just found a Vorpal greatsword. Let's melt it down; I want a Holy Avenger longsword." They don't consider any treasure but those, primarily permanent, items that they do want to be useful. This cause interesting items such as Figurines of Wondrous Power, Decanters of Endless Water and even consumables to be worth less to the players than the item's value in gold. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">All characters have the same amount of Money if they are the same level - At level 1 in most games Bob the turnip farmer turned adventurer and Henri the merchant prince of a wealth nation have the same starting wealth and can start with the same quality equipment. Something feels off about this.</li> </ul>Things I have no problems with if they are not included with Wealth by Level guidelines:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic item shops - While there plausibility varies based on campaign and world, in of themselves they do make sense. There has to be somewhere to buy and sell various goods, and this includes magic items. Magic item shops are even a good place to generate character goals and adventures. See a flaming sword or magic ring in the window you want, but its price is 20 times as much as what you currently have? You could go out, adventure and save up till you have enough to buy what you want, or you could come up with a scheme to steal it. Both can lead to exciting stories. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic item crafting - I have no problem with crafting magic items. There are some great tales to be told about doing so. You can build entire adventures around forging one or more weapons or other items. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Treasure Parcels - Treasure Parcels are great! They allow you to figure out how much treasure to give out in an adventure and how you are going to give it out. 10 parcels? 3 go in the dragons horde, 2 in the mercenaries paychest, 1 is divided up in the pockets of the mercenaries themselves, the ogre has 1 in his bag of goods, 1 is hidden at the bottom of the ravine on the corpse of an adventurer and the final 2 are in the hidden treasure chamber. Now all I need to do is figure out how much and what treasure I want to give out and then divide it into 10 roughly equal groupings. Treasure parcels have been in D&D at least as far back as 1e (then they were known as treasure types, though they did have problems of their own. Centaurs with 1,000,000 gp gems anyone?) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic item Wishlists - Wishlists are great for finding out what sort of things players want for their characters. They are great sources for treasure ideas. The problems start appearing when they get treated like checklists. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Equipment Quality - When all you can expect to have is ordinary equipment, even a +1 bonus to hit and damage or even a negation of penalties becomes magic. How many 2e Dark Sun players got excited about something as simple as an iron or steel dagger? Probably a lot if they had been reliant primarily on wood, stone and/or bone weapons. Mithral and elven chainmail are basically chainmail with out the penalties to thief skills, but many a thief was willing to trade an arm and a leg for just a chance to wear a suit. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Inherent Bonuses - Inherent bonuses are great. Who can complain about gaining damage reduction/weapon resistance from bathing in the river Lethe or gaining the ability to hear the speech of animals from eating the fat from a dragons heart. I have even played around with the idea that dragon slayers age slow and have enhanced senses after having killing a dragon.</li> </ul></blockquote>

Verification